[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":50005},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/cto-special-31-kathrin-radtke-von-spellgarden-games":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":104,"speakerCount":105,"relatedPodcasts":106,"transcript":107},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":27,"speakers":38,"members":66,"picks_of_the_day":99,"tags":100,"tagsPrepared":101,"speakersPrepared":102},"bc1356b3-c588-4087-9aca-5935a29c6b2b","2025-03-07T16:00:00.000Z","cto_special","#31","Kathrin Radtke von Spellgarden Games","cto-special-31-kathrin-radtke-von-spellgarden-games","\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">In diesem CTO-Special sprechen Dennis und Jan mit Kathrin Radtke, Co-Founderin des Spiele-Entwicklungsstudios Spellgarden Games. Sie erzählt ihre Geschichte – von den ersten Berührungspunkten mit Games bis hin zur Gründung ihres eigenen Studios, das bewusst einen anderen Weg geht als in der Branche üblich.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Wir erfahren von Kathrin, wie sie in jungen Jahren ihre ersten Erfahrungen mit Computerspielen gemacht hat und erzählt, wann ihr klar wurde, dass ihre Zukunft in der Spieleentwicklung liegt. Auch im Studium sammelte sie bereits erste Gamedesign-Erfahrungen – ein wichtiger Grundstein für ihre Karriere.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Nach ihrem ersten Job als Spieleentwicklerin bei einem deutschen Studio gründete sie gemeinsam mit Freund:innen ihre eigene Firma – mit dem entschiedenen Ziel, Crunch und Termindruck in der Spielebranche entgegenzuwirken.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Doch auch sie kam an Deadlines, Milestones und den Anforderungen von Publishern nicht vorbei. Wie es ihr dennoch gelungen ist, eine gesunde und harmonische Teamkultur zu etablieren, und wieso ihr zweites Spiel schon vor ihrem ersten Spiel erschienen ist, besprechen wir in dieser Folge.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/16750442-cto-special-31-kathrin-radtke-von-spellgarden-games.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":25,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"dabbe106-62ec-4e2f-8bce-b08a126e4514","Cto31 Kathrin Radtke","dabbe106-62ec-4e2f-8bce-b08a126e4514.jpg","cto31_Kathrin_Radtke.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","1433743","2025-02-24T13:43:49.801Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2025-02-24T13:43:49.797Z","35140572-5f04-494b-b197-bd9ef1edc33d",1500,{"id":28,"title":29,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":30,"filename_download":31,"metadata":32,"type":33,"filesize":34,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":35,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":36,"folder":12,"width":37,"height":37,"charset":12,"duration":12},"b779b694-1c52-4419-b72f-a5f7056034a0","Kathrin Radtke Profile Freigestellt","b779b694-1c52-4419-b72f-a5f7056034a0.png","Kathrin_Radtke_profile_freigestellt.png",{},"image/png","1328527","2025-03-07T15:14:29.563Z","2025-03-07T15:14:29.560Z",1024,[39],{"speaker":40},{"id":41,"slug":42,"academic_title":12,"occupation":43,"first_name":44,"last_name":45,"description":46,"event_image":47,"profile_image":57},"1c2c169d-2c7c-4658-ae25-ae9909044b88","kathrin-radtke","Mitgründerin von Spellgarden Games","Kathrin","Radtke","\u003Cp>Kathrin Radtke ist Spieleprogrammiererin und lebt in Schottland. Nach fünf Jahren als angestellte Software-Entwicklerin gründete sie 2022 gemeinsam mit drei Kolleg:innen das Indie-Game-Studio „Spellgarden Games“. Im Sommer 2023 veröffentlichte das Studio den beliebten Sticker-Shop-Manager „Sticky Business”. Zum Zeitpunkt der Podcast-Aufnahme arbeitet das Team an „Ritual of Raven”, einem Farming-Game, das noch in diesem Jahr erscheinen soll.\u003C/p>",{"id":48,"title":49,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":50,"filename_download":51,"metadata":52,"type":20,"filesize":53,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":54,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":55,"folder":12,"width":56,"height":37,"charset":12,"duration":12},"69bec67b-de64-4cc5-b4a3-005eca974971","Kathrin Radtke Event","69bec67b-de64-4cc5-b4a3-005eca974971.jpg","Kathrin_Radtke_event.jpg",{},"961374","2025-02-24T14:04:22.125Z","2025-02-24T14:04:22.123Z",1536,{"id":58,"title":59,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":60,"filename_download":61,"metadata":62,"type":20,"filesize":63,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":64,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":65,"folder":12,"width":37,"height":37,"charset":12,"duration":12},"4da11321-5fb2-4138-8397-84b2c7df5f86","Kathrin Radtke Profile","4da11321-5fb2-4138-8397-84b2c7df5f86.jpg","Kathrin_Radtke_profile.jpg",{},"877347","2025-02-24T14:04:17.658Z","2025-02-24T14:04:17.653Z",[67,82],{"member":68},{"id":69,"first_name":70,"last_name":71,"occupation":72,"description":73,"normal_image":74},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C/p>",{"id":75,"title":76,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":77,"filename_download":78,"metadata":12,"type":20,"filesize":79,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":80,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":81,"folder":12,"width":37,"height":37,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",{"member":83},{"id":84,"first_name":85,"last_name":86,"occupation":87,"description":88,"normal_image":89},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":90,"title":91,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":92,"filename_download":93,"metadata":94,"type":20,"filesize":95,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":96,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":97,"uploaded_on":98,"folder":12,"width":37,"height":37,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",[],[],[],[103],{"first_name":44,"last_name":45,"profile_image":57,"slug":42,"description":46,"event_image":47,"academic_title":12},461,191,[],{"id":108,"service":109,"supported_features":110,"speakers":113,"raw_response":121},"2ef6a1ea-cf37-495a-ab33-e2a65bcd5291","deepgram",[111,112],"timestamps","diarization",[114,117,119],{"identifier":115,"name":116},"0","Jan",{"identifier":118,"name":70},"1",{"identifier":120,"name":44},"2",{"metadata":122,"results":136},{"transaction_key":123,"request_id":124,"sha256":125,"created":126,"duration":127,"channels":128,"models":129,"model_info":131},"deprecated","5bb5f5f3-2cd1-4c2e-829d-2f228779526f","f203dd4d36a634e66580f3c1933aac6861483fcf4d3d8c5d6d3bc589b7e24f6c","2025-03-07T09:16:12.775Z",4060.297,1,[130],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":132},{"name":133,"version":134,"arch":135},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":137,"utterances":34188},[138],{"alternatives":139},[140],{"transcript":141,"confidence":142,"words":143,"paragraphs":32063},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen bei einer neuen programmierbar Podcastfolge, heute wieder in einem CTO Special und ich muss sagen, Dennis, ich stolper jedes Mal über diesen Namen CTO Special, weil wir hatten jetzt schon so oft Gäste hier, die irgendwie so formell gar keinen CTO sind. Ich glaub, wir brauchen mal 'n anderes, wie auch immer dafür. Aber ist CTO nicht auch son bisschen einen Synonym da draußen? Es fühlen sich, glaub ich, auch viele Leute von CTO angesprochen, gar nicht das offizielle. Okay, also herzlich willkommen beim gefühlten CTO Special in der Programmier war. Unser heutiger Gast Katrin Rake, weiß gar nicht, Katrin, würdest Du dich als CTO fühlen? Hi, erst mal vielen Dank für die Einladung. Ich hatte das genau dieses Thema grade mit meinem Mitgründer besprochen und wir waren so, weiß ich jetzt auch nicht, ob ich das so sagen würde. Ja, aber ist halt eine spannende Fragestellung für später, so. Was was vielleicht das dich zögern lässt zu sagen, ja, es ist, ich kann die CDU nennen, finden wir vielleicht raus. Unabhängig davon, was Katrin zögern lässt, ob sie sich CTO nennt oder nicht. Was uns dazu gebracht hat, sie trotzdem einzuladen, war, dass Katrin vor einiger sehr langer Zeit, ich glaub, es war der letzte Sommer oder nee, das letzte Frühjahr sogar schon, ne, ne, bei uns hier in Bad Nauheim zu Gast war als Teil des FEMDEVs Meetups und son bisschen darüber gesprochen hat, wie sie ihr eigenes Spielestudio Spy Garden Games gegründet hat und son bisschen ihre Geschichte erzählt hat. Ich dachte, boah, das ist ja voll toll und voll schade, dass nur irgendwie dreißig Leute hier sind und das jetzt hören. Und dann machen wir son bisschen Reichweitenboost und nehmen mal sone kurze Podcastfolge dazu auf. Kurz in Anführungszeichen, das ist der Moment, wo alle da draußen auf ihrem Podcastplayer gucken und merken, oh mein Gott, das sind doch fünfundneunzig Minuten, bis es zu Ende ist oder so. Mal genau diese Geschichte son bisschen zu beleuchten. Wir haben ja ganz oft CTOs, Gründer, CPOs, was auch immer das hier, die mehr von so Software b two b Seite irgendwie kommen. Und ich fand's super cool, mal jemanden zu haben, der wirklich von soner Consumer Faceing Spielseite da drauf guckt, was, glaub ich, mehr Gemeinsamkeiten hat, als man denkt mit so Anwender Softwareentwicklungen, aber auch superviele interessante Unterschiede mitbringt und genau darüber wollen wir heute einmal sprechen. Aber die allererste Frage ist dann natürlich immer, Katrin, wie bist Du in diesen Zaubertrank gefallen und was hat dich zu Computern gebracht? Zu Computern gebracht, also das war, glaube ich, mein Papa. Das war irgendwie son Thema, was ich schon immer voll spannend fand, also irgendwie am Computer dann ganz früher mit Paint drum malen und so, fand ich immer voll faszinierend. Dann hab ich irgendwann mal 'n ersten Game Boy bekommen, da war ich neun, glaube ich und meine Mama sagt, seitdem hab ich nichts anderes mehr gemacht als Game Boy spielen und so ist es dann auch geblieben. Und hast Du dann auch irgendwann schon einen Computer oder das ist eher immer oder immer? Ist es erst mal dieser Spielkonsolen Zugang gewesen? Wir haben dann irgendwann auch 'n Computer gehabt, ja. Da hab ich dann, da waren dann so Sachen wie die Löwenzahnspiele und so, der große Hit. Also da war ich vielleicht so, ja keine Ahnung, sechs, sieben, acht sowas den Dreh, als wir dann unseren ersten Computer hatten, noch ohne Internet und alles, ja. Sehr gut. Und hat dein Papa einfach nur 'n technisches Interesse oder hat er was in der Richtung gemacht? Mein Papa war Radio- und Fernsehtechniker, also quasi auf jeden Fall auch im technischen Bereich immer gewesen, immer viel mit dem Computer gemacht, ja. Das ist ja auch son Punkt, den wir schon 'n paarmal jetzt hier in den Biografien hatten, ne, dass Eltern das so mitbringen, aber quasi formell auch gar nichts damit zu tun hatten, aber weil sie natürlich auch aus soner Zeit kommen, wo es das formell für sie auch gar nicht so gab. Mhm. So, also meine Eltern kommen ja auch aus 'ner Zeit, wo niemand oder die allerwenigsten Leute Informatik oder so was studiert hatten oder oder Softwareentwicklung oder so was. Das gab's halt irgendwie so in den in den Sechzigern noch nicht, ohne mich jetzt hier zu sehr zu daten, ja. Aber das das das halt interessant, dass es trotzdem ja diesen diesen Typ Mensch schon gab, der so für Technik und für Computer und Maschinen irgendwie interessiert und das dann an seine Kinder weitergibt. Und deshalb sitzen wir alle heute hier. Das stimmt. Aber bei mir hat's sogar eine Generation übersprungen. Hat dein Opa dir Computer beigebracht? Ja. Spannend. Wow. Ja, der war immer technisch super superaffin und hat bis, ich weiß nicht, als der, ist über neunzig geworden, aber auch in seinen Mitte Achtzigern hatte er dann Tablet und Smartphone und ist damit drangeblieben und hat auch Sachen vorher Geil. Versucht, sich beizubringen und Programmiersprachen zu lernen und so. Und der hat den den ersten Commodore vierundsechzig, den wir damals hatten, der war von ihm. Der hat er so das Abgabeprodukt von ihm, ja, abfahrt. Das hoffe ich ja so für uns auch son bisschen, ne, dass wir nicht in dieses in diese Situation kommen, wo Technik uns irgendwann überholt und wir uns nichts mehr trauen, die Sachen irgendwie anzupassen, die die coolen Kids heute irgendwie als Spielzeug benutzen so. Dass wir auch mit neunzig noch da sitzen und oh, dieses iPad zweihundertsiebenunddreißig, das ist ja so toll oder so schlecht oder keine Ahnung was und so. Ja. Bin, bin ja auch Geht aber schnell, oder? Also ich weiß nicht, ob ich ich glaub, der neueste Scheiß ist jetzt Snapchat wieder. Das ist auch an mir vorbei gegangen und dann denke ich mir manchmal auch okay jetzt Jen Z ist doch dann manchmal weiter weg, als man denkt, hab ich das Gefühl? Hey, ich schreib mir mal die auf die Fahne, dass ich durch TikTok noch so wahnsinnig jung geblieben bin. Ja. Zumindest da son paar Trends und so was kenne. Also es gibt zumindest 'n paar Worte, die meinem Sohn unangenehm sind, wenn ich sie nenne und sage, woher weißt Du, woher kennst Du das Wort? Moment, das es gibt Worte, die deinem Sohn unangenehm sind, wenn Du sie sagst. Ja, ich Okay, nur nur, das musst Du für alle da draußen natürlich auch sagen, wie alt dein Sohn ist, dann wird's nämlich noch lustiger. Wieso? Der ist sieben. Ja. Du hast jetzt schon peinlich vor deinem Sohn. Ja, das kriegt man, glaub ich, sehr früh hin. Mhm. Aber er sich zumindest wundert, weil ich gefragt habe, kennst Du das und das? Weil ich ja auch nicht weiß, was, ne, was dann deren jetzt Sprache und so was schon ist. Und da hatt ich zumindest den Da kann ich noch einigermaßen mithalten aktuell. Okay, krass. Ja. Okay. Zurück zum Thema. Ganz, ganz, Entschuldigung. Nein, alles, alles gut. Ganz, ganz zweite Kurve geschlagen. Okay, das war so dein dein ersten Kontakt mit mit Computern und Spielen auch. Weißt Du noch oder kannst dich noch an den Moment in deinem Leben erinnern, wo Du das erste Mal gedacht hast, okay, das das ist 'n Beruf, da kann man eine Karrieretaus machen und das das ist was, für was ich mich auch interessiere? Relativ spät, weil mir nicht bewusst war, dass man Videospiele als Job machen kann. Also irgendwie hab ich da gar nicht drüber nachgedacht. Das war für mich so weit weg, dass ich also erstens ich rüber nicht wirklich drüber nachgedacht hab, dass da ja jemand sein muss, der das macht und wenn das jemand macht, dann auf jeden Fall nicht in Deutschland, sondern ne in USA vielleicht oder Japan, wie jetzt keine Ahnung Pokémon oder so, war das war das erste Spiel, was ich auf meinem eigenen Game Boy hatte. Da war mir klar, das kommt nicht aus Deutschland. Deswegen war das ganz lange gar nicht auf meinem Schirm und dann, also ich erinnere mich, dass ich bevor ich angefangen hab zu studieren, habe ich gesehen, dass es in Berlin den Game Design Studiengang gibt und hab da kurz mit geliebäugelt, aber das war mir auch irgendwie das ja wirkte für mich zu weit weg wie irgendwie eine Traumerei so. Und dann habe ich angefangen Medieninformatik beziehungsweise mobile Medien zu studieren in Stuttgart und dort gab es Vorlesungen zum Thema Videospiele und die habe ich erst mal belegt, weil ich dachte Videospiele finde ich cool und ich mach die mal so aus Spaß. Gar nicht so wirklich mit dem Hintergedanken, ich mach das dann später als Job, sondern einfach, weil ich muss ja meine ECD erst voll kriegen und dann gehe ich dahin, weil ich's halt interessant finde und dann so irgendwann, ein, zwei Semester später, kam mir dann so der Gedanke, ach so, vielleicht könnte ich ja das tatsächlich mal machen, ja. Jetzt ist ja unter Leuten, die Informatik studieren, Spieleentwicklung immer son bisschen zweischneidig. Auf der einen Seite ist das das, was superviele Leute zum Computer gebracht hat und so dieses Grundinteresse geweckt hat, ja. Auf der anderen Seite haben ja Leute auch immer son bisschen Angst davor oder vielmals Angst davor, dass es sone brotlose Kunst ist, auch insbesondere in Deutschland, ja, weil ja jetzt ja ja nicht die großen Publisher sitzen, also obwohl die auch hier sitzen, aber daran denken halt die allermeisten irgendwie nicht, ne. Und da denken sie so, okay, was was mach ich denn dann, wenn ich so was studiert hab. Wie wie war das bei dir? Also das das war der Moment, wo man gesagt hat, okay, man kann das hier lernen, man kann das ja auch machen. Wann war aber dieser Moment, wo Du hast, okay, das hat tatsächlich auch Hand und Fuß und ist mehr als nur planke Theorie und 'n Studiengang? Gute Frage. Also ich hab dann irgendwann noch mal ein bisschen weiter recherchiert und dann auch gesehen, dass es eben Studios auch in Deutschland gibt und dann auch teilweise getroffen irgendwie auf Events mal und ich glaub das war dann irgendwann so der Moment, wo ich dann tatsächlich Leute getroffen hab, die in diesem Beruf arbeiten, wo ich gedacht hab, ach so. Ja gut, die verdienen da offensichtlich Geld mit und können ihre Miete bezahlen, also muss das wohl irgendwie gehen. Ja, ich ja, ich glaub dadurch kam das, einfach Leute treffen und sehen, dass es geht, ja. Und dann warst Du irgendwann mit deinem Studium fertig, so und wie hast Du den den Fuß in die Tür in dieser Branche gekriegt? Ich hab damals, als ich noch im Studium war, habe ich Leute getroffen von 'nem Game Studio auf 'nem Event auf so 'nem Studievent, die da waren und mit denen gequatscht, die eben 'n Studio hatten und dann warst Du ja vielleicht kann man ja mal 'n Praktikum machen, mal gucken und hab mich dann dort beworben für 'n Praktikum, dann als ich mein Praxissemester hatte, das war im fünfte Semester, glaube ich und hat das Glück gehabt, dass ich dann da genommen wurde und konnte dann Praktikum machen und dann habe ich weiter studiert und meinen Bachelor gemacht und dann irgendwann während ich meine Bachelorarbeit geschrieben hab 'n Anruf bekommen, ob ich bitte wiederkommen kann, weil gerade deren Programmierer gekündigt hatte und sich schnell jemand neuen brauchten. Und es hat bei mir natürlich super reingepasst, weil ich halt ja grade dann am gucken war, was wie's da weitergeht und bin dann einfach direkt dort angefangen direkt nachm Studium. Ja, Glück gehabt. Wie muss man sich das Leben als Jobeinsteiger in der Spieleentwicklung vorstellen? Ich hab ja, also von uns allen dreien hier in dieser Runde hab ich am allerwenigsten mit Spieleentwicklung zu tun. Ich arbeite zwar auch hier bei Lotum und hier fallen regelmäßig neue Spiele raus, aber ich hab damit nichts zu tun so, ja. Das machen andere Leute, die es damit mehr und besser auskennen. Und wenn wir hier sonst mit Entwicklern sprechen, sind das Ganze oft so Webenwicklern und ich fang dann irgendwie mal an, sone kleine Webseite zu machen oder son Widget als ersten Job in irgendwie 'nem bestehenden Projekt rein oder so was. Wie ist der Einstieg für dich gewesen? Das Studio, wo ich angefangen hab, war relativ klein. Also als ich da angefangen hab, waren das glaube ich so boah, vielleicht so zehn Leute oder so und das fand ich ziemlich cool, weil das bedeutete halt, dass ich quasi direkt an allen Stellen auch mit reinschauen konnte und an vielen Stellen irgendwie mit eingebunden war und das war nicht so, dass ich irgendwie nur so ganz am Rande 'n bisschen Features bauen durfte, die irgendwie dann am Ende niemand so wirklich sieht, sondern da war's tatsächlich irgendwie von Anfang an so, wir bauen jetzt dieses Feature, mach mal. Was war das erste Spiel, an dem Du da mitgespielt hast? Was ging's da? Ich muss mal kurz überlegen, also ich glaube, das erste boah, was war das denn da noch mal? Also in meinem Praktikum, das erste, was ich glaube ich gemacht hab, war eine App für Kinder, wo man aus so verschiedenen Characterne Oper zusammenbauen kann, die dann da gesungen haben und animiert wurden. Sehr cool. Das war ganz witzig. Genau und als ich dann angefangen hab dort Vollzeit zu arbeiten, haben wir 'n Port gemacht von dem Spiel The InnerWorld, ist son Point and Click Adventure. Das war quasi schon fertig und wir haben davon dann, als ich gerade angefangen hab, noch die, ich glaub, Xbox- und Playstation Version gemacht. Oh, aber das heißt, es war schon technologisch, habt ihr mit oder mit 'nem anderen großen oder was? Also wie Also Keine Ahnung. Jan hat grade gesagt, Lotum, ja, wir machen auch Spiele. Ich würde aber sagen, ich wir sind trotzdem irgendwo relativ weit weg davon, weil wir jetzt nicht mit 'ner Game Engine arbeiten und nicht mehr was mit drei D gemacht haben und von daher irgendwie schon sehr nah an der nativen App Entwicklung oder auch an der Webentwicklung dran sind. Das Studio da war aber schon klassischer, was man unter Gaming versteht. Genau, also als ich mein Praktikum gemacht hab, da war es Flash und das erste den ersten Port, den wir da gemacht haben, als ich dann da Unity Okay. Zu portieren, genau. Und danach danach Unity dann. Ja. Flash muss man vielleicht auch für die Jüngeren da draußen erklären. Ach, weiß ich nicht. Weiß ich nicht, man kriegt das noch Ist jetzt vorbei, also. Noch mal mit oder so. Alles, was früher auch heute link hat. Mit mit Flashmid, so. Nee, gibt's nicht sone Historie, son Geschichtsunterricht in 'nem Studium, son älterer Ohr, vorne steht. Früher hatten wir ja nichts, wir mussten mit Flash arbeiten. Echt? Ja. Okay. Mhm. Und da habt ihr an unterschiedlichen Spielen gearbeitet oder wie wie kann man da grundsätzlich sich den den den Ablauf vorstellen? Also gab es mehrere, die online waren und die mussten da waren oder gab's eine lange Phase dann eine Neuentwicklung? Wo hast Du son bisschen da mit dran gewirkt und wie war das aufgestellt? Ja, also als ich angestellt war, waren's hauptsächlich einfach Projekte, die wurden gemacht und dann waren die oft dann fertig, wurden releast und sind dann einfach fertig. Da war dann, also bei den großen großen und sind dann einfach fertig. Da war dann, also bei den großen Spielen war dann nicht mehr viel mit DLCs oder so. Irgendwie andere Zeiten, glaube ich. Kann man jetzt heutzutage nicht mehr so machen, glaube Oder na ja, kann man schon, aber genau und und halt Apps haben wir hab ich da gemacht und das war dann schon so, dass es da auch dann Updates gab und neuen neuen Content und so, dass da immer mal wieder was dazu kam und Bugfixes gemacht wurden und so. Also von beidem ein bisschen. Was waren denn so die die wichtigsten Skills, die Du aus diesem ersten Job mitgenommen hast? Ja, ich glaub das Wichtigste, was ich da mitgenommen hab, waren zum einen einfach, wie man Spiele macht, also wie es technisch funktioniert wie die Engine funktioniert das alles son bisschen einmal mitzukriegen wie man halbwegs schönen Code schreibt der funktioniert obwohl man irgendwie unter Zeitdruck arbeitet das andere Leute da auch dran arbeiten können dass man auch zusammen gut arbeitet wie es im Team funktioniert ne wie man die Aufgaben aufteilt und eben auch son bisschen wie die Games Branche funktioniert, dass man ja nicht einmal 'n Spiel macht und das dann auf Steam releast und dann verkauft sich das, so funktioniert's halt nicht, sondern da zählt dann noch 'n bisschen mehr dazu irgendwie auch Marketing zu machen und so weiter. Das ist ja, glaub ich, son son großer Unterschied der Spieleentwicklung von anderer Softwareentwicklung unterscheidet, dass es eben jemanden gibt, der Spiele macht und dann gibt es da son Publisher, so, der auch irgendwie noch seine Hände mit dem Spiel hat. Kannst Du einmal für alle da draußen so in dreißig Sekunden Elevator Pitch erklären, wie da diese Dynamik eigentlich ist und wer da was genau von macht? Also das ist natürlich von Spiel zu Spiel auch immer noch mal 'n bisschen unterschiedlich, aber bei uns ist es jetzt Beispiel so, dass wir für unser aktuelles Spiel mit 'nem Publisher zusammenarbeitet, der zum einen das Spiel zu gutem großen Teil bezahlt. Das muss nicht immer so sein, aber bei uns ist es jetzt zum Beispiel so und sich Sachen kümmert wie das Marketing, dass man in Events kommt, Sachen wie QA, also Quality Assurance, die Lokalisation organisiert und so weiter, also quasi alles drum rum, was sozusagen nicht Entwicklung selber ist und dazu haben wir dann eben diese Partner, damit wir uns da quasi weniger darum kümmern müssen, was jetzt nicht heißt, dass wir gar kein Marketing machen. Also wir machen selber zum Beispiel auch unsere Social Media Kanäle und so weiter, aber es ist so ein bisschen aufgeteilt und nimmt so ein bisschen die Last, alles machen zu müssen. Mhm. Mhm. Ja, Dennis. Und später bekommt man, ist es son einmal Ding oder ist man praktisch trotzdem noch beteiligt? Also ist der bezahlt der Publisher einmal das Spiel und sagt so okay, ich nehm es jetzt ab und dann ist fertig oder hat man dann noch irgendwelche Royities oder sind das ist das auch immer unterschiedlich? Genau, also es kann auch unterschiedlich sein. Ich es gibt soweit, ich weiß noch Publisher, die einfach auftragsmäßig was abgeben und Du dann keine Royities oder nur sehr wenig Royities kriegst. Genau, bei uns ist jetzt zum Beispiel so, dass wir 'n Teil bekommen von von dem von den Verkäufen. Genau und je nachdem, manchmal musst Du noch das reccoupen, was Du bekommen hast, manchmal nicht, manchmal nur 'n Teil, gibt's ganz unterschiedliche Varianten davon. Da sind jetzt, also ich würd da gern noch 'n bisschen mehr einsteigen. Ich frag mich nur gerade, ob wir einmal noch, weil wir jetzt ja auch schon 'n bisschen darüber reden, was Du jetzt machst, ob wir einmal noch uns dem Lebenslauf weiterhangeln zudem, in welcher Rolle Du jetzt bist, bevor ich dann noch da mehr drüber frage. Ja, also die die Einstiegsfrage dazu wär ja, jetzt hast Du quasi deinen ersten Job gemacht. Wie lange hast Du das durchgehalten, bis Du dein eigenes Studio gemacht hast? Und warum durchgehalten? Oh, das klingt jetzt aber sehr negativ. Also bei den meisten, die mit denen wir hier sprechen, ist es tatsächlich so, dass dass so der Tenor ist, boah, irgendwann wollten sie halt, ne, so mehr selbstbestimmt und und mehr Kontrolle und deshalb was Eigenes, also das ist schon son gefühlt immer wie son Befreiungsschlag auch klingt. Ja, nee, kann ich auf jeden Fall mitfühlen. Also ich hab das fünf Jahre durchgehalten und dann wars genau ein bisschen wie Du sagst, ich hatte einfach das Gefühl ich will das anders machen, ich hab eine andere Idee davon, wie das funktionieren soll und ich glaub anders geht's besser und ich will einfach nicht, dass mir jemand sagt, was ich machen soll. Finde ich auch blöd. Ich will selber entscheiden. Genau und dann hatte ich meine drei Co Founder*innen, die denen ging's auch so und dann hat sich das gut angeboten. Wie habt ihr zueinander gefunden? Wir haben alle im gleichen Studio gearbeitet. Oh, das war also gleichzeitig noch 'n schwerer Schlag für das Studio, wenn Du sagst, das waren so ungefähr zehn Leute und ihr nehmt da 'n paar schon mit, dann ist natürlich auch Also, zu dem Zeitpunkt waren's sehr viel mehr. Okay. Da waren's, glaube ich, die dreißig oder so Und es gab es gab eine große Runde Layouts. Das heißt, sie haben das teilweise auch selber entschieden. Mhm. Also war jetzt nicht, dass wir jetzt irgendwie Leute geklaut haben oder so. Okay. Also quasi eine coole Opportunity eigentlich gemacht und One Life kivacy Lampons, McLaminay. Genau, es war son bisschen, na ja gut, wir haben jetzt irgendwie alle keinen Job mehr. Jetzt können wir uns auch probieren. Schlimmer wird's nicht mehr. Noch nix zu verlieren grade, also Ja, wir lachen, aber ist ja eigentlich genau die richtige Einstellung so, ne. Also wenn nicht jetzt, wann dann. Genau und dann zu dem Zeitpunkt war's so, dass es in Baden Württemberg eben die Möglichkeit gab, eine Förderung zu bekommen, die die wir dann zum Glück auch bekommen haben und das deswegen eben auch machen konnten überhaupt, weil sonst hätten wir halt gar nicht die Kohle gehabt, das überhaupt zu starten. Gab's, also ohne zu zu negativ dann über den Job vorher zu reden, aber gab's irgendwie Dinge, auf die ihr euch geeinigt habt oder schnell einigen konntet, die ihr definitiv anders machen wolltet? Und in welche Bereichen lagen die? Viele Sachen, viele, viele Sachen. Ja, ist doch klar, oder? Also in welchen Bereichen, also es war, glaube ich, viel, also für mich war ein großer Grund, weswegen ich selbstständig sein wollte und so arbeiten wollte, wie wir es jetzt machen, dass ich ein für mich war einfach diese Firma mit ungefähr dreißig Leuten hat sich für mich einmal zu groß angefühlt und mir gefällt es viel besser in 'nem ganz ganz kleinen Team zu arbeiten, weil diese große Firma hat einfach so wahnsinnig viel Zeit gefressen mit Meetings und Absprachen und dann hat jemand was nicht mitbekommen, dann wurden Sachen doppelt gemacht oder verworfen, irgendwie unsichtbare Hierarchien, das fand ich blöd und ich ja, das war son bisschen, was wir dann anders machen wollten und es gab auch teilweise Phasen, wo dann doch gecrunched wurde, irgendwie viele Überstunden gemacht haben auf eine Art, die ich nicht so, die mir nicht so gefallen hat. Genau, wo wir gesagt haben, wir wollen das anders machen. Also wir sind auch relativ schnell, nachdem wir angefangen haben, dazu übergegangen, nur vier Tage die Woche zu arbeiten, was mir sehr viel besser gefällt, wo wo ich's Gefühl hab, wir können sehr viel effektiver einfach arbeiten und es irgendwie uns allen besser geht. Und macht ihr, nur zur Verständnisfrage, macht ihr dann viermal acht oder viermal zehn Stunden? Wir machen viermal Fünfzehn. Also auf keinen Fall zehn. Vielleicht sogar 'n bisschen weniger als acht. Okay. Je nachdem. Also jetzt gerade sind wir in 'ner Phase, wo, also wir haben jetzt letzte Woche unseren Betameiston abgegeben, da sind's eher acht, sonst sind's auch manchmal bisschen weniger als acht Stunden. Okay, cool. Und Dennis deine Frage noch mal umzudrehen, gab's auch irgendwas, wo ihr euch sehr schwergetan hattet, dann 'n Konsens am Anfang zu finden mit wie wollen wir gemeinsam dieses und jenes machen? Also mir fällt jetzt auf jeden Fall grad spontan dazu nichts ein. Ich glaub, was es uns einfacher gemacht hat, war, dass wir eben vorher alle schon zusammengearbeitet haben und ja wussten, wie die anderen ticken Und und von daher uns ja schon dazu entschieden haben, dass wir das zusammen machen, weil wir schon geahnt haben, dass wir das alle ungefähr gleich sehen. Darum gab's jetzt keine großen Sachen, wo wir uns uneinig waren. Okay, dann lass mich die Frage anders stellen, weil ich dachte eigentlich, es kommt jetzt was anderes. Aber ich versuch's noch mal. Ich würde behaupten so, Spieleentwicklerinnen sind ja im Schnitt wahrscheinlich etwas kreativer als der durchschnittliche Softwareentwickler so, ja? Also es kommt ja einfach mit der Branche so auch son bisschen, ne? Ne. Wie schwer oder leicht ist es euch da gefallen, euch zu dritt auf überhaupt eine Spielidee und ein Konzept zu einigen, was man dann initial verfolgt? Zu viert sind wir So, sorry. Am Anfang. Ja. Nicht schwer. Da holt er auch nicht drauf hinaus. Aber was redet was Ich überleg gerade, was deine was was wo Du was Aber was ich was ich jetzt erzählen sollte. Da kommt da kommt ja noch dahinter, was er was er eigentlich hören wollte. Nein, aber ist ja okay, ist ja okay, aber ich dachte nur, weißt Du, wenn wenn wir jetzt hier bei Lotum drei random Leute an einen Tisch setzen und sagen, überlegt euch mal ein gemeinsames Spiel. Ja. So, ich glaube schon, dass die länger brauchen würden, zu überlegen, ne, was fürn Genre, was fürn Stil, für wen ist das? Also da da sind ja so viele Entscheidungen irgendwie auch Zeit. Ich mein, ist ja cool, dass es für euch so geklappt hat und quasi da da ihr euch direkt einig wart, aber ich hätte da, damit hätt ich nicht gerechnet, sagen wir's. Genau. Aber das zu verstehen, dann müssen wir jetzt noch, da komm ich 'n bisschen auf die Frage, ich eigentlich eben noch son bisschen im Kopf hatte. Also zur bisschen Struktur. Ihr seid vier oder Du hast gerade gesagt, ihr wart, also ihr habt zu viert gegründet, ist das richtig? Genau. Jetzt haben wir mittlerweile eine Person eingestellt, eine Social Media Managerin. Okay, aber die vier Gründerinnen sind noch dabei. Mhm. Okay. Und dann da meine Frage, wenn man Ich hab verstanden, ihr arbeitet auch jetzt mit einem Publisher zusammen. Mhm. Und wie war das jetzt in dem konkreten Fall? Also erstens habt ihr schon habt ihr seitdem ihr gegründet habt, ein Spiel oder habt ihr schon verschiedene Sachen gemacht? Und kommt dann der Publisher mit einer Idee und sagt, hier macht mal das oder pitcht ihr eine Spielidee, einem Publisher? Die Spielideen kommen von uns. Also wir haben jetzt, das ist jetzt unser zweites Spiel, was diesen Sommer rauskommen wird. Was aber tatsächlich das erste Spiel war, mit dem wir angefangen haben zu entwickeln. Also unser großes Spiel entwickeln wir quasi seit zweitausendeinundzwanzig und haben dann einen Prototypen gemacht, haben die Förderung bekommen und haben das hundert Jahre gefühlt gepitcht, bis wir dann endlich die Zusage hatten, dass wir das machen könnten und wir genug Geld haben, die Produktion zu machen. In der Zwischenzeit haben wir dann unser zweites Spiel, was dann unser erster Release war, gemacht. Das Spiel heißt Sticky Business, ist wesentlich kleiner auch und das kam eben im Sommer zweitausenddreiundzwanzig raus. Wo wollt ihr die Frage hin? Hab ich die Frage schon beantwortet? Ja, genau. Also das heißt, der Publisher hilft da an der Stelle dann beim Vermarkten und dem dem rausbringen, aber ihr hattet praktisch eine Idee und wollt ihr das machen. Und ist das der, also sind die beiden Spiele bei dem gleichen Publisher oder sucht man sich da immer neue Leute? Nee, sind zwei unterschiedliche Publisher. Also wir hatten das Spiel auch dem, also das Spiel, was wir jetzt grade machen, auch den Publisher gepitcht, mit dem wir das erste gemacht haben, aber es war also auch einfach zu vom vom Scope hat's einfach nicht zusammengepasst. Das ist der Grund, weswegen es dann zwei unterschiedliche geworden sind. Das heißt, die Game Publisher haben auch ihr eigenes ihr eigenes Genre Feld, indem sie irgendwie aktiv sind oder was gut zu ihnen passt und Genau, viele haben, genau, viele haben son bisschen son Genre, was sie machen, manche auch nicht. Also der Publisher, mit dem wir jetzt grade unser Spiel haben, die machen auch viele verschiedene Genres. Sie sind nicht so spezialisiert. Aber manche sind auch sehr spezialisiert und machen nur zum Beispiel Strategiespiele oder so. Wie kommt das bei 'nem Publisher an, wenn ihr eigentlich gerade in eurem ersten Spiel arbeitet und ihr dann sagt, ah, wir sind zwar noch nicht fertig, aber wir hätten hier noch diese coole zweite Idee wenn ihr die nicht mit uns machen wollt, dann gehen wir irgendwo anders hin und arbeiten mit jemand anderem zwischenzeitlich schon mal daran weiter, obwohl wir noch nicht mal das fertig gemacht haben, was wir uns eigentlich zusammen vorgenommen hatten. Also der Ablauf war ja so, wir hatten unser erstes großes Spiel, das haben wir angefangen zu pitchen. Ja. Dann haben die sich ja hundert Jahre Zeit gelassen und in der Zeit haben wir halt was anderes gemacht. Ah, okay. Wenn sie uns da schlecht von abhalten, das zu machen. Okay. Genau, ja. Aber trotzdem ist ja dann auch in dem Moment der der Pitchzusage, ist ja quasi schon so dieser Beigeschmack von, okay, wir machen das jetzt mit euch, aber übrigens, wir haben schon angefangen dieses dieses zweite Spiel irgendwie auch zu machen, ne, aber das war kein Problem dann in der Unterhaltung. Nee, das war kein Problem. Ich glaube, es war, wenn ich jetzt zurückgucke, vielleicht sogar eher positiv, weil das Spiel halt sehr gut angekommen ist und es klar war, es ist was Kleines, wir arbeiten da ne, das ist dann abgeschlossen, wenn wir die Produktion von dem großen Spiel anfangen, wird das Kleine fertig sein und wenn, dann ist es halt nur positiv, weil man quasi dann die Audience ja von dem Spiel auch noch mal rüberziehen kann und sagen, wir haben hier noch 'n Spiel, wollt ihr das nicht auch ausprobieren? Also das war kein, also zumindest so wie ich das mitbekommen hab, war das kein Problem. Und habt ihr euch die Aufgaben dort irgendwie klar vorher definiert irgendwie aufgeteilt oder macht ihr alle ähnliche Dinge? Also es ist schon aufgeteilt, wir haben eine eine Game Artist, die die ganze Pixelart macht und eine Game Designerin, die quasi Konzepte macht und Mechaniken und alles in Unity zusammenbastelt, die Szenen zum Beispiel zusammenbaut und noch einen weiteren Programmierer, der auch tatsächlich eigentlich nur programmiert und mich. Ich mach tatsächlich 'n bisschen ein Mischding, also ich programmier, aber ich mach auch Gamedesignonzepte, also bei mir ist son bisschen was dazwischen. Und hat sich das so organisch ergeben oder war das eine bewusste Entscheidung bei allen? Also es war so, dass wir eben in dem Studio, wo wir alle vorher zusammengearbeitet haben, in diesen Rollen schon gearbeitet haben. Mhm. Beziehungsweise ich war vorher nur Programmiererin. Ich hab vorhin eigentlich kein Gamedesign gemacht. Das kam, ich war ehrlich gesagt, weiß ich gar nicht so genau, wie das kam. Vielleicht einfach, weil ich immer, weil ich immer alles weil ich immer alles besser weiß sein. Aber nee, das war schön, weil wir hatten eben diese Rollen, aber dadurch, dass wir jetzt so eine so ein kleines Team sind, können alle viel mehr auch in anderen Bereichen 'n bisschen gucken und ausprobieren und so hat sich das dann son bisschen ergeben, dass ich da auch 'n bisschen mehr machen kann im Bereich Game Design, was mir dann irgendwie auch dann Spaß gemacht hat. Und jetzt kommen wir vielleicht zu der eingangs gestellten Frage zurück, wie sehr Du dich als CTO fühlst oder auch nicht. Genau, also ja, das zählt da son bisschen mit rein, ne, dass es bei mir dann doch so irgendwie sich in den letzten Jahren entwickelt hat, dass ich gar nicht nur programmiere, was ich auch total gut finde, weil ich das Gefühl hab, das ergänzt sich total gut, wenn's jemanden gibt, der quasi auf beiden Seiten sieht. Was was geht denn und was geht nicht? Es ergänzt sich, es ergänzt sich total gut, jemanden zu haben, der auf beiden Seiten so ein bisschen gucken okay, ich hab jetzt diese super Idee, aber ich weiß auch, wenn ich das jetzt vorschlage, dann müssen wir diese ganze diesen ganzen Code umbauen und dann da vielleicht schon mal ein bisschen Auge drauf hat, was geht und was nicht. Und Du hattest hattest ja eingangs auch gesagt, na ja, das ist eine eine Diskussion, die Du auch im Team grade geführt hast so, ja. Wie wie kam das denn auf? Also war das jetzt quasi eine bewusste Entscheidung, okay, Du Du fühlst dich jetzt in dieser Rolle oder ist das so irgendwie gewachsen über Zeit, wie wie wie lief denn diese Diskussion im Team? Also ich glaube, es ist mehr einfach gewachsen, als dass wir irgendwann gesagt haben so und ab jetzt mache ich fünfzig Prozent das und fünfzig Prozent das oder siebzig Prozent das und dreißig Prozent das, sondern es ist halt ganz oft so, dass man hat halt also bei unserem Vertrag, den wir mit unserem Publisher haben, haben wir jeden Monat ne, MyStones und da steht halt drin, das und das muss gemacht werden und wenn das gemacht werden muss, dann muss das halt jemand machen. So und wenn jetzt mehr Gamedesign Arbeit da ist, dann muss die halt jemand machen und ich glaub, das war einfach auch ein großer Teil, dass einfach so war, gut, das muss jetzt gemacht werden. Wer macht das? Wer kann das machen? Ich kann das machen und mir macht's Spaß. Also ja, ich glaube, das ist einfach zu großen Teilen dadurch gekommen. Okay, also wir können feststellen, Du bist nicht fehlplatziert in diesem Podcast hier. Unabhängig von von Titel und allem anderen, weil das ja im Prinzip geht das ja genau das Mindset, was Du grade grade beschrieben hast. Wie siehst Du denn persönlich so die Entwicklung von eurem Studio und von dir so? Seht ihr euch in fünf oder zehn Jahren auch wieder mit dreißig Mann am Start und unterschiedlichen Spielen und unterschiedlichen Teams und keine Ahnung was? Oder versucht ihr, auf Biegen und Brechen bei fünf Leuten, vier Leuten zu bleiben und jeder im Prinzip die Tätigkeit, die er genau jetzt macht, die nächsten fünf Jahre noch irgendwie fortzuführen. Was was nimmt man sich vor, wenn man 'n Spielestudio aufmacht? Also ich bei uns ist es, glaub ich, relativ klar, dass wir zumindest aktuell alle sagen, nee, ist grad eine gute Größe. Ich will jetzt nicht, keine Ahnung, was ich in zehn Jahren denke, vielleicht denke ich da was ganz anderes kann ja sein. Jetzt grade denke ich, nee, ich bin damit sehr zufrieden, dass wir 'n kleines Team sind und genauso mag ich arbeiten, Deswegen haben wir gar keine Pläne, irgendwie großartig Leute einzustellen und da sind wir uns, glaub ich, auch sehr einig, weil, ja, weil's einfach, glaub ich, nicht so richtig für uns ist grade. Und wenn ihr so zufrieden seid mit dem Setting, was ihr jetzt grade habt, ihr habt, wenn ich mich an den Talk erinnert, zwanzig zweiundzwanzig gegründet, ne? Einundzwanzig Anfang zweitausendzweiundzwanzig haben wir offiziell die Firma gestartet, genau, ja. Also so oder so, ihr habt ja jetzt schon son paar Jahre aufm Buckel damit. Was wäre denn so der Rat, den Du der Katrin von vor 'n paar Jahren mitgeben würdest, sagen wir das, hey, wenn dir jetzt dieses Spielestudio startet, das sind son paar Dinge, auf die solltet ihr von Anfang an irgendwie achten. Also mir ganz persönlich würde ich, glaube ich, den Rat geben, nicht son großes Spiel zu machen, weil ich grade so viel hab, es dauert einfach alles viel zu lange und das Genre, also wir machen gerade 'n Farming Game, das war halt zweitausendeinundzwanzig total angesagt. Mittlerweile gibt's halt Farming Games wie Sand am Meer und wir sind damit vielleicht einfach sogar auch bisschen spät, obwohl wir auch noch mal son bisschen Twist haben, deswegen ich mal, dass es trotzdem gut ankommt, aber für uns, also weil wir ja so ein kleines Team sind, ist es glaube ich total von Vorteil einfach kleine Spiele zu machen und jetzt gerade, wie die Gamesbranche so aussieht, ist es glaube ich generell eine gar nicht so eine schlechte Idee, weil's halt gerade mit Funding und so ziemlich schwierig ist, weil viele Publisher ihre Geldbeutel erst mal zugemacht haben und nicht mehr so viel Geld da ist wie irgendwie nach Corona, wo der große Boom war. Darum ist das glaube ich grade son bisschen der Way to go für uns, also nach diesem großen Spiel werden wir auch auf jeden Fall erst mal wieder was Kleines machen. Ob das jetzt der Rat ist, dem ich jedem Spielestudio geben würde, keine Ahnung. Vielen wahrscheinlich schon, aber vielleicht auch nicht jedem. Aber lass uns doch technisch trotzdem mal über diese diese größeren Spiele und Spielideen sprechen, einfach weil es vielleicht das Anspruchsvollere auch ist, ja. Oder vielleicht auch nicht, kannst Du mir gerne widersprechen, ja. Vielleicht ist es auch anspruchsvoller, irgendwie eine Mechanik in 'nem kleineren Spiel zu implementieren, weil einfach weniger weniger Space dafür da ist. Aber wenn Du jetzt sagst, ihr habt eure Idee ist 'n Farming Spiel oder andersrum. Bevor wir über die Idee und die Technik dahinter reden, willst Du vielleicht ganz kurz einmal das Spiel abreißen, damit alle da draußen son Einblick haben. Ich hab's ja schon mal im Talk gesehen, aber vielleicht bin da da drauf. Abreißen kann man auch unterschiedlich interpretieren, aber Moment einen kurzen Abriss geben. Lecker damit. Einen kurzen Abriss geben. Ja. Ja. Stell dir vor, ich bin dein potenzieller Publisher und Du musst mir jetzt dieses Spiel witchen. Alles klar. Also das Spiel, was wir machen, ist ein Witchy Farming Game. Also 'n Spiel, das in 'ner Hexenwelt quasi spielt und der Clou ist, dass Du das Farming aber nicht selber machst, sondern Du hast Arkana constructs, das sind so kleine roboterartige Wesen und die kannst Du verzaubern und unter uns ist jetzt geheim nicht weitererzählen, aber das Verzauberndes Programmieren, sagen wir aber im Spiel niemandem, Programmieren ist gruselig. Darum verzaubert man die und kann dann damit seine Farm automatisieren und es gibt noch eine Geschichte, also das ganze ist story based, dass die Hexe, die da die dich trainiert, verschwindet und verschiedene Portale in der Welt auftauchen, die alle völlig gehen und in der Story musst Du dann halt dich mit den Leuten anfreunden und die Portale wieder stabilisieren. Okay. Ich glaub, das haben alle da draußen verstanden. Ich fand's auch megacool, als ich das erste Mal gehört hab. Ich find's immer noch früher, als ich jetzt das zweite oder dritte Mal gehört hab. Wie nähert ihr euch denn technisch sonem Spiel? Weil also allein von dem, was ich jetzt schon gehört hab, stell ich mir vor, da sind halt sehr viele unterschiedliche Systeme beteiligt. Da ist da sind irgendwie Produktionsketten mit drin von verschiedenen Rohstoffen. Da ist 'n Balancing drin von, was brauchst Du wie oft und was kostet wie viel und was bringt welche Werte irgendwie mit. Da sind eigenständig handelnde Akteure irgendwie drin, deine Roboter, ja, die ja irgendwie ohne dich laufen müssen, aber trotzdem irgendwie Teil von von dieser Welt und und der Engine und der Run Time irgendwie sein müssen. Wenn ihr jetzt diese Idee habt, wie fangt ihr an, diese Systeme einzeln runterzubrechen? Mhm. Also das war auf jeden Fall eine Herausforderung, weil das Spiel schon 'n Umfang hat, wo es auch relativ lange gedauert hat, bis man erst mal 'n Game Loop zusammen hat. Das Spiel, was wir vorher gemacht haben, Sticky Business, da macht man Sticker, Du bastelst Sticker aus verschiedenen Elementen. Da hatten wir nach einem Tag einen Game Loop, wo Du schon was machen konntest und sehen konntest, ach so, das ist das Spiel. Vielleicht einmal für alle Nichtspielentwickler da draußen, was ist ein Gamelop? Ah, der Gamelop ist quasi, was Du im Spiel immer und immer wieder machst. Also zum Beispiel in 'nem Fighting Game würdest Du Leute verprügeln. Eine Runde Fighting Game wär zum Beispiel dann ein Loop, jemand verprügeln und gewinnen oder verlieren und dann noch mal. Und wenn Du davon sprichst, dass ihr einen Game Loop hattet, dann redeten wir aber immer noch über die konzeptionelle Ebene davon. Also quasi sich einmal Gedanken zu machen, was gehört da alles dazu oder wirklich von 'nem funktionierenden Proof of Concect, wo man einmal durchklicken kann? Genau, ich rede von im in der Engine, sodass ich's spielen kann oder ausprobieren kann eben, genau. Okay. Genau, das war was, was bei unserem vorigen Spiel einen Tag gedauert hat. Jetzt hat's bei bei Richel of Raven, keine Ahnung Wochen gedauert, bis man da überhaupt was hat, was was man komplett einmal spielen kann und was dann irgendwie Sinn ergibt. Und da haben wir es so gemacht, wir haben zuerst einen Prototypen gemacht, den konnte man auch schon komplett spielen, aber natürlich 'n viel kleineren Teil, also es waren viel weniger Pflanzen, viel weniger Constructs, viel weniger Character, die dabei sind, aber einmal quasi den Vertical Slice, was macht man in diesem Spiel, diesen Tag Nacht Rhythmus zum Beispiel, den man in Farming Games hat, dass dann über Nacht immer die Pflanzen wachsen und so weiter. Für den Prototyp haben wir, glaube ich, ja, ich glaub so drei, vier Monate oder so gebraucht, bis der bis man den quasi ausprobieren konnte und wir den pitchen konnten. Und was wir dann gemacht haben, als wir dann die Produktion angefangen haben, ist tatsächlich, wir haben quasi noch mal alles von vorne aufgebaut, weil der Prototypcode halt unmöglich war und es furchtbar gewesen wäre da drauf aufzubauen, weil das halt gar nicht so angelegt war, dass man das noch super erweitern kann, so es sollte einfach nur schnell sein, damit wir zeigen können, das hier soll das Spiel sein. Genau und dann haben wir in der Produktion quasi jedes einzelne Feature noch mal neu aufgebaut, aufgeteilt in was was ist ein Feature, zum Beispiel, dass die Zeit läuft, es Nacht wird, dann die Pflanzen wachsen jeden Tag, dass man die wässern kann, alles nacheinander aufgeteilt in kleine Lotion Tasks und dann werden die nacheinander abgearbeitet, bis man was spielen kann. Wie muss ich mir das in der in der Spieleentwicklung vorstellen? Ich komm ja nur aus so klassischer Softwareentwicklung und da ist es ja so, dass ich viele Probleme ja auch schon durch Dependencies lösen kann. Ich bau jetzt hier meine Web App und ich will irgendwie 'n Log in System haben, da gibt's irgend 'n irgend 'n Modul, was mir auf NPM oder Packages oder Cargo oder wo auch immer, in welcher Sprache ich unterwegs bin, irgendwie mir rein installieren kann. Dann hab ich son User Management und 'n Log in System und vielleicht 'n Social Login oder keine Ahnung was oder ich bin eine Datenbankanbindung, das kann ich mir auch irgendwie reinziehen und muss sie noch konfigurieren. Wenn ich jetzt in sonem Spiel bin, ja, natürlich bringt die Engine schon son bisschen was mit, so. Aber ich dachte zum Beispiel, na, ich will son Tag Nacht Zyklus haben oder ich will hier son son Rohstoffsystem haben. Ist das was, was man sich quasi für sein Spiel von Grund auf selbst bauen und designen muss oder ist das auch was, wo man son bisschen son Baukastensystem hat und sagen kann, na ja, das hole ich mir von irgendwo her und passt das noch an oder es gibt's vielleicht komplett out of the box schon irgendwie. Was musstet ihr wirklich neu erfinden und wo konntet ihr auf anderen Sachen aufbauen? Also für Gamechaniken tatsächlich oft schwierig, weil man will ja auch neue Mechaniken sich ausdenken, die nicht sind wie bei anderen Spielen, ansonsten könnten die Leute auch einfach die anderen Spiele spielen, müssten nicht dein Spiel spielen. Es gibt schon bestimmte Sachen, wo wir auch Plug ins benutzen, also zum Beispiel für den Input, dass irgendwie verschiedene Controller erkannt werden und so weiter, das haben wir jetzt zum Beispiel nicht selber gebaut oder was ich auch schon mal benutzt hab, ist irgendwie 'n Safe System als Plug in runtergeladen. Das haben wir jetzt für unser jetziges Spiel selber gemacht, aber habe ich auch schon als Plug in benutzt. Solche Sachen, die eher so Systeme sind, die so unten drunter liegen, das funktioniert schon ganz gut. Genau, aber ja für tatsächlich Mechaniken eher selber in den meisten Fällen. Und das macht jetzt auch in, ich glaub, ich weiß gar nicht, ob wir das gefragt haben, Unity. Mhm. Genau. Okay. Und für alle da draußen, die noch nicht mit Unity gearbeitet haben, wie arbeitet man mit Unity? Das ist ja bestimmt nicht so low Level Assemblure Code, sondern was macht man da? Genau, also Du hast halt deinen Editor, wo Du das Level oder quasi die Szene schon drin sehen kannst und da verschieden die Objekte rumschieben kannst und wie Du sie haben willst und auf den Objekten liegen, das sind Gameobjects, die haben ein sogenanntes Monobehavior und in denen kannst Du deinen Code dann schreiben, c-Sharp-Code, denen quasi zu sagen, was die machen sollen, ne. Also laufen oder sich bewegen oder Okay. Und Du hattest vorhin ja auch schon mal erwähnt, dass einer der wichtigen Skills, die Du aus dem aus deinem ersten Job mitgenommen hast, war so dieses, wie arbeitet man im Team eigentlich an sonem Projekt zusammen, ne. Wie macht ihr das jetzt? Also hast eben schon gesagt, na ja, es gibt so verschiedene Notan Tasks, ja, und dann wird es einfach nacheinander abgearbeitet. Das ist dann sehr simpel, so. Ich hoffe ich hoffe für euch, es ist so, aber wahrscheinlich ist es nicht ganz so einfach, Wenn er jetzt son Task ist, ja, wir brauchen ein Tag Nacht System, so. Macht es dann eine Person alleine oder ist das dann so, na ja, da brauch ich, ich hab wirklich keine Ahnung, ja, aber ich sag mal so ganz einfach, da brauch ich einen einen Sonne- und ein Mondsymbol, also braucht muss mir hier mein Grafikmensch erst mal was machen, dann kann ich das irgendwie im im Spiel implementieren, dann macht jemand anderes den Loop davon. Oder ist das eher so, einer macht alles davon und own quasi dieses ganze Feature? Wie seid ihr da so aufgestellt? Genau, also zuerst mal müssen die Notion Charts natürlich irgendwo herkommen, ne. Also die erscheinen nicht einfach. Ja, ja. Genau, also das machen wir meistens so, dass wir uns einfach auch zusammensetzen und überlegen, was was wollen wir denn jetzt eigentlich machen? Was soll denn eigentlich passieren? Und dann uns eben die Tasks erstellen oder irgendwie zusammenschreiben. Genau, dann ist es normalerweise so, wenn ich jetzt, wenn er jetzt sagt zum Beispiel das Tag und Nacht Feature, das würde wahrscheinlich eine Gamedesigner mal aufschreiben, was soll denn da eigentlich passieren in im kleinsten Detail, so wie lange soll das dauern, was passiert, wenn's dunkel wird, was passiert, wenn man schlafen geht und so weiter und so weiter. Dann kriegt das Notion Kärtchen 'n Programmierer zugeschoben, das einzubauen und dann denkt man, oh die Programmieragrafiken, die wir da reingemacht haben, sind aber ganz schön hässlich, vielleicht sogar das Kärtchen mal noch der Artist zu schieben. Die dann noch entsprechend Grafiken macht und 'n Bett malt oder irgendwie die das das Licht einstellt, damit man auch sieht, dass es dunkel wird und so weiter. Also es sind ist eigentlich in jedem Feature sind eigentlich alle irgendwie immer 'n bisschen beteiligt. Okay. Okay. Ja. Und vielleicht eine eine letzte technische Frage dazu. Wie macht ihr grade in sonem kleinen Team Quality Assurance? So, weiß nicht, gibt's da gibt's das automatisierte Tests, gibt's da Juni Tests über die die Game Logik? Macht man das nur so end zu end, indem man das das Spiel oder bestimmte Teile davon einfach immer wieder spielt, wie wie schafft ihr das? Also wir haben tatsächlich gar keine automatisierten Tests. Ich weiß, dass manche Leute das auch machen. Ich hab das noch nie gemacht automatisiert irgendwie 'n Spiel zu testen. Bei uns war es jetzt immer so, also bei dem kleinen Spiel haben wir es zu 'nem großen Teil tatsächlich selber getestet, wobei wir auch Outsourcing QA hatten, also eine tatsächlich eine Firma, die nichts anderes machen als den ganzen Tag das Spiel zu testen und dann die Bugs aufzuschreiben. Und jetzt ist es auch wieder so, dass wir jetzt da das Spiel relativ großes haben, wir entsprechend Tester, die das testen. Auch nicht nur eine Person, sondern mehrere, die dann eben immer wieder spielen und verschiedene Sachen ausprobieren. Da gibt's da eine große Liste an Testcases, was ausprobiert werden muss jedes Mal. Da stehen quasi alle Features drin, die ausprobiert werden müssen und dann kann abgehakt werden, funktioniert oder funktioniert nicht und hoffentlich ist alles grün, meistens nicht und dann werden einfach die Tickets gemacht und wir bearbeiten die dann. Cool. Warum kompliziert, wenn's auch einfach geht? Wie sehr habt ihr denn dann jetzt eine Deadline und wie gut und ab welchem Zeitpunkt kann man das einschätzen, ob das klappt oder nicht? Also schwer auf jeden Fall einzuschätzen, deswegen werden Spiele ja auch ständig verschoben, weil man aber denkt, ja, das schaffe ich schon und dann merkt man, ach so, da gibt's noch dieses Problem und ah, wenn ich das jetzt mach, dann hat das noch diesen Einfluss auf dieses System, was einfach nicht abzusehen ist, deswegen baut man halt einfach super viel Puffer ein und hofft, dass es reicht und meistens reicht's halt nicht. Bei uns war es jetzt so, wir haben quasi das Spiel gepitcht und haben gesagt, wir brauchen achtzehn Monate, das war geraten. Wir haben gedacht, ja das wird schon ungefähr passen und haben quasi einen groben Plan aufgestellt, wann wir was machen, was würde Sinn ergeben. Also erst muss ich quasi den Tag Nacht Rhythmus bauen, damit ich bauen kann, dass dann die Pflanzen wachsen und so weiter Und haben gesagt, jo und dann sind wir einfach losgelaufen und haben mal geguckt. Es lief eigentlich bei uns jetzt ganz gut, also wir sind ganz gut halbwegs hingekommen, also wir haben jetzt zwei Monate verlängert, als wir ursprünglich geplant haben, was noch ganz okay ist, finde ich. Ich hab auch schon in Projekten beteiligt, die haben sich dann verdoppelt oder so. Von daher hab ich ganz stolz Meine, glaub ich, alle schon. Irgendeiner Ahnung. Bin ich ganz stolz und denk zwei Monate ist eigentlich okay. Genau, denk zwei Monate ist eigentlich okay. Genau und ja absehbar, dass was nicht klappt. Unterschiedlich, ne. Manchmal läuft man, bis man fast am meisten ist und merkt dann, oh scheiße, hier fehlt noch ganz viel und das haben wir irgendwie übersehen. Manchmal kann man es auch schon voraussehen. Also wir hatten zum Beispiel immer viele Probleme mit dem Writing, weil sich das immer verschoben hat und wir irgendwann gemerkt haben oh krass, das ist doch ganz schön viel mehr als wir dachten. Wir haben uns einfach verschätzt, weil wir einfach damit nicht so wahnsinnig viel Erfahrung hatten und dann irgendwann gesehen haben, ah okay, wenn wir jetzt erst so weit sind und wir müssten eigentlich in zwei Milestones dort sein, dann schaffen wir das nicht. Ja. Okay. Ich würde zu 'nem ganz anderen Thema kommen, wenn Du dazu keine Frage mehr hast. Dennis guckt in den Raum. Ja, ich, da ich überleg grad noch son bisschen. Also ich mein, eine der der Stereobilder Development gibt und ja auch ein Grund, den Du genannt hast, den Du gerne anders machen würdest, ist eben ja irgendwie Crunch Time und Überstunden anders und irgendwie zu viel machen. Und da war grade mein Gedankengang noch son bisschen, ne, wo wo kommt das ursprünglich her? Sind das dann irgendwie einfach Kosten, Einsparungen oder Kalkulation, die ja letztendlich irgendwie auch darauf basieren, ne, den dann, dass das Game letztendlich auch teurer machen, wenn man länger braucht. Ja und wie ihr die möglichst entgeht, weil ich ihr habt den Eindruck, euch ist schon wichtig, das nicht so sehr zu haben. Ja, so gut es eben geht, ne. Ich glaub also zu hundert Prozent vermeiden, dass man jemals Überstunden macht, ist glaub sehr schwer, keine Ahnung, ob das für jemand schafft, dann Aber das geht, glaub ich, in keiner Branche, oder? Das hat ja nicht mal was mit euch zu tun. Ja. Ja. Genau, aber ja klar, also das Problem ist natürlich, ich hab jetzt hier irgendwie mal Publisher gesagt, ich mach das in achtzehn Monaten fertig und dann hab ich irgendwie 'n Release Date, wo wir sagen, ja da soll das fertig sein und das Geld reicht dann aber ja logischerweise auch nur bis dahin. Ja und und dann, was mache ich dann, ne? Also es muss ja irgendwie weitergehen, es muss irgendwie Einkommen reinkommen, sonst kann ich meine Miete nicht bezahlen. Das ist natürlich schlecht. Genau und ja, wir versuchen son bisschen Ich also ich glaube, dass der Hauptpunkt, den ich sehe, ist, dass man son bisschen manchmal auch die perfektionistische Ader son bisschen ablegen muss, wo man denkt, ja, sehr voll geil, wenn ich jetzt dieses Feature noch so bauen könnte. Aber ist es wirklich so, macht es wirklich das Spiel so viel besser? Muss es wirklich unbedingt sein oder könnte ich vielleicht hier auch eine Corner cutten, damit ich's trotzdem fertig kriege? Und ja genau. Also wie gesagt, ich will auch nicht sagen, dass wir gar keine Überschunden machen, weil das stimmt auch nicht. Also im Dezember hatten wir zum Beispiel sone Zeit, wo wir wirklich tatsächlich prominenttem Writing hatten und die Lokalisation halt fertig sein musste, damit das Ganze übersetzt werden kann, wo es dann doch mal eng wurde, weil ja, ansonsten verschiebt sich halt alles, wenn die Low Carb nicht fertig ist. Okay. Ja. Ich stell mal eine eine These auf und dann kannst Du mir sagen, ob ich falsch leg grad drin. Aber diese diese Crunch Time, die kommt ja wahrscheinlich öfter vom Publisher als von dem Studio, weil der also weil der Publisher ja wahrscheinlich mehr den Druck aufbaut als das Studio selbst beziehungsweise das Studio ja quasi nur indirekt dann, weil der Publisher eben den Druck macht. Der Publisher muss ja irgendwie auch den Druck machen, weil er ist ja für, ne, was haben wir gesagt, Marketing, Vertrieb, Distribution und so was alles verantwortlich. Und da hängt er ja mit 'nem Fuß in der Welt, die ganz anders funktioniert als Softwareentwicklung. So, wenn Du große Marketingkampagnen schaltest mit Werbung vielleicht in in Print oder in anderen Medien zusammen, ja, die haben ja auch wiederum Deadlines und so was, ja. Also auch da ist ja der Publisher am Ende auch wieder 'n bisschen nur Getriebener von der Welt, in der er sich bewegt oder oder sie sich bewegen, so. Und deshalb lässt sich das vielleicht am Ende gar nicht zu hundert Prozent auflösen. Und je größer das Spiel ist und je größer der Werbeaufwand, der damit verbunden ist, desto enger sind die Deadlines, desto teilter ist das Budget und desto mehr Druck entsteht da quasi auch. Also ist das natürlich 'n Problem, was sich mit der Größe des Spiels auch exponiert wahrscheinlich irgendwann. Und dann dann kommt man da halt auch einfach nicht mehr so einfach raus, ja. Und dann, also so meine Theorie, aber wie gesagt, ich bin ja auch nicht in dieser Brodo drin. Bestimmt. Also ich kann mir sehr gut vorstellen, dass es sich mit größeren Spielen auch vervielfacht, weil's da auch eben noch so viel schwieriger ist einzuschätzen, wie lange ich denn jetzt brauche, weil ich kann viel einfacher sehen, was was muss ich in den nächsten zwei Monaten machen, als was mach ich in achtzehn Monaten? Kann ich ja null einschätzen, wenn das Spiel fast fertig ist, wie lange dann Sachen dauern. Andererseits könnte ich dir auch sagen, wenn Du das zehnte Battlefield in Folge baust, dann sollst Du vielleicht auch langsam irgendwann verstanden haben, wie lange es braucht. Vielleicht. Ja, das stimmt. Das ist 'n ja guter Punkt. Boah Du, keine Ahnung. In Triple A bin ich gar nicht drin, weiß ich überhaupt gar nicht, wie das funktioniert. Kann ich mir auch null vorstellen in Triple A zu arbeiten, muss ich ganz ehrlich sagen. Ja, das könnte ich glaub ich auch nicht. Was macht für dich 'n erfolgreiches Spiel aus? Kannst Du das kannst Du das runterbrechen? Erfolgreiches Spiel. Boah das Also erfolgreich inwiefern, ne? Es gibt natürlich Spiele, die sind finanziell erfolgreich. Gibt auch Spiele, die sind erfolgreich und gewinnen viele Preise, weil sie irgendwie artistisch besonders wertvoll sind. Was wär für Was ist denn dein Ziel? Was fürn Spiel möchtest Du denn kreieren? Also ich würde gern was machen, was ich was irgendwie, also ja klar, sonen künstlerischen Anbruch hab ich schon auch, ich möchte was machen, wo ich denk, wo ich dann am Ende sagen kann, das ist ein schönes Spiel, da bin ich stolz drauf, was ich gemacht hab, so, es hat vielleicht auch irgendwie, bringt vielleicht Leute weiter oder zumindest macht es Leute glücklich, wenn sie's spielen oder sie denken vielleicht noch mal irgendwann drüber nach so, das ist schon so mein Anspruch und ich möchte natürlich auch gern meine Miete bezahlen. Also ich hätt schon auch gern finanziell Erfolg, weil ansonsten müsste ich das, dann wär das 'n Hobby, ne und aber es ist ja mein Beruf, also müsste schon irgendwie beides da sein. Mhm. Da würde ich noch mal reingrätschen, wo Du sagst, na ja, ansonsten wär's 'n Hobby. Ich würde nicht sagen, dass es 'n Hobby ist, nur weil's kein Geld verdient. Ich würde sagen, vielleicht ist es ja auch Kunst, so, ne. Also wenn ich mir Kunst da draußen so im Großen und Ganzen anguckt, dann kann man sich ja auch legitimerweise die Frage stellen, trägt sich das immer selbst oder lebt Kunst nicht auch davon, dass sie stellenweise einfach auch quersubventioniert wird, ja, so von anderer, also wie wie viel Kunst spielt sich da draußen ab, die nicht wirtschaftlich erfolgreich wäre, wenn sie nicht irgendwie andere Einkommen noch dazu hätte und dass Spieleentwicklung am Ende nicht auch eine Form von Kunst, so wie Film und Malerei auch eine Form von Kunst sein kann. Ja, nee, Du hast recht, da muss ich da muss ich doch noch mal bisschen zurückrudern. Nee, stimme ich dir zu. Aber trotzdem gibt's wahrscheinlich wenig Spiele, die künstlerisch erfolgreich sind, aber sich wirtschaftlich einfach überhaupt gar nicht tragen, weil's da wahrscheinlich einfach keine keine vergleichbaren Fördermechanismen für gibt, ne. Also wenn ich jetzt sagen würde, ich bin irgendwie renommierter Künstler so und häng halt irgendwie viel in in Museen rum oder so, dann hab ich son bisschen, kann kann ich son son Cashflow davon irgendwie machen noch, ja. Aber für Spiele gibt's ja das Äquivalent nicht. Ja. Entschuldigung, ich muss nur über den Ausdruck, ich hänge muss nicht drum lachen, aber ja, ihr habt kurz gebraucht. Ja, meine meine Werke werden halt ausgestellt, sondern dann dann lebe ich ja nicht davon, dass dass viele Leute mir direkt irgendwie Geld zuschustern, aber halt durch den durch den stellvertretenden Konsum meiner Kunst sozusagen kann ich dann irgendwie damit leben. Aber das das gibt's ja bei bei Spielen weiß ich nicht. Ja, also Du musst natürlich schon, wenn Du jetzt irgendwie Förderung willst, bei allermeisten Förderungen schreibst Du schon mit rein, wie Du das Spiel vermarkten willst und wie das Geld wieder reinbekommen willst, ne. Also Ja. Stimmt schon, aber es gibt natürlich auch irgendwie Serious Games, die es irgendwie, die die weniger marktorientiert sind, sag ich mal. Wie würdest Du denn insgesamt den Zustand der Spielebranche in Deutschland beschreiben? Also ja, ich Ich glaub, das sagt schon alles aus, wenn man das so steht. Also es gab natürlich irgendwie nach Corona gab's den Riesenboom ne oder während Corona. Alle alles wurde riesig groß, alle Firmen wurden gekauft und alle waren so ja, jetzt werden wir alle reich mit Spielen und Embracer sowieso und dann stellte sich irgendwann raus, ach so ups nach Corona ist doch nicht so, die Leute machen doch auch wieder andere Sachen und sitzen nicht nur drin und spielen. So und jetzt gerade wird halt links und rechts alles geschlossen oder verkauft und das sieht natürlich irgendwie nicht so super rosig aus und auch wenn ich jetzt mal so mich umhör bei anderen Entwickler*innen, die ich kenne. Funding zu kriegen ist gerade schwer, die Bundesförderung gibt's gerade nicht, die es mal gab, also wo wir tatsächlich einfach Spiele gefördert bekommen haben, einfach leer ist jetzt weg und jetzt ohne Haushalt gerade auch irgendwie schwierig, ich glaub jetzt ist sie wieder gestartet. Bin mir grad gar nicht so ganz sicher. Aber es ist alles irgendwie schwierig und ja, die die Fördersituation grad nicht ganz so rosig. Das beschreibt so die die wirtschaftliche Situation. Wie glaubst Du, steht es in Deutschland den Schritt davor, die Ausbildung vorne für Spieleentwicklerinnen? Ich würde sagen, das sieht gar nicht so schlecht aus. Ich glaube, es gibt viele gute Unis, wo man Spielentwicklung lernen kann und viele Leute, die die da auch rauskommen. Also wir kriegen viele Bewerbungen, obwohl wir halt gar keine Ausschreibungen machen. Also sind alles Initiativbewerbungen von Leuten, die wo ich sag, ja geil, also sieht gut aus, was Du machst, ich will halt niemanden einstellen, aber wenn ich wollte, dann ja, so. Also gibt viele viele gute Leute, die grade von den Unis kommen. Aber die haben's halt schwer. Ja. Also ja, die die haben's Wirtschaft, also die sind einfach grade so so ein Opfer ihrer Zeit, ja. Mhm. Aber was, meinst Du, wenn Du sagst, es gibt viele gute Leute, was was macht es aus und welchem Umstand haben wir das zu verdanken, dass es offensichtliche gute Ausbildungen in dem Bereich gibt? Welchen Umstand haben wir das zu verdanken? Boah, Du hast keine Ahnung, wie Okay, dann anders rumpackt. Also wenn Du sagst, es es gibt viele coole Kandidaten, die halt von der Uni kommen, was zeichnet die denn für dich aus? Weil der Abschluss per se ist es ja nicht. Also was bringen die Leute mit, wo Du sagst, da die die die sind gut? Ja, also was ich immer beeindruckend finde ist, wenn Leute, die jetzt irgendwie grade aus dem Studium kommen, eben schon 'n paar Spieleprojekte und 'n schönes Portfolio haben, wo ich sehe, ah, die haben schon was gemacht, die haben auch mit Leuten zusammengearbeitet, da würde ich müsste ich mir quasi keine Gedanken machen, sondern ich könnte die einfach mit ins Team holen und die wüssten, wie es wie das läuft so ne. Wir können im Team arbeiten und wissen generell, wie Unit funktioniert oder so. Ich könnte quasi direkt mit denen starten, ohne für mich jetzt irgendwie großartig Aufwand zu haben. Cool. Hast Du denn Ja und die Leute sind halt sind halt jetzt oft suchen ihren Job, ne, in der Games Branche und landen aber in anderen Branchen, was voll schade ist, weil die sind dann erst mal verloren für die Games Branche, obwohl sie dafür voll gut geeignet wären, aber die kommen wahrscheinlich auch nicht wieder, weil die arbeiten dann halt, keine Ahnung, beim Mercedes und verdienen Arsch voll Geld und damit kann halt die Games Branche nicht mithalten, denen irgendwann dieses Gehalt zu zahlen. Mhm. Bist Du glücklich? Ja, kleine Frage. So generell oder mit meinem Job? Nein, natürlich 'n bisschen auf das bezogen, was wir gesagt haben. Bist Du glücklich, dass Du das den Schritt gegangen bist, dein dein eigenes Studio mitzugründen? Guckst Du zuversichtlich in die Zukunft mit dem, was ihr da gerade macht? Auf jeden Fall. Also ich bin superfroh, dass wir das so gemacht haben. Ich würd's nicht anders machen, jetzt im Sinne von, also ich würd sicherlich irgendwie andere Entscheidungen treffen, aber ich würde generell würde ich das wieder so machen und eine Firma gründen. Das gefällt mir total gut und ich glaube, es wird auch gut in der Zukunft, also bei uns sieht's grad gut aus mit dem Spiel, das wir jetzt vorher veröffentlicht haben, das kleinere. Das läuft ziemlich gut, da gibt's dann noch Updates und die erzählst und so weiter und Leute finden das auch immer noch gut und kaufen das. Deswegen kannst Du auch noch bei uns 'n bisschen weitergehen und wir haben jetzt quasi die Chance dann danach noch ein, zwei Spiele zu machen, die hoffentlich dann auch laufen, ohne dass uns das Geld ausgeht und deswegen ist sehr positiv. Ja, hört sich gut an. Gut, wunderbar. Moderierst Du dich an? Die Fragerunden. Das ist noch deine Fragen. Ist meine Frage. Ja, ich geborene die Fragen. Wir haben eine kleine Frage, einen kleinen Fragenkatalog, den Du die meisten Fragen mit entweder oder Du kannst ja nicht mit entweder oder beantworten haben. Bitte sag einfach oder jetzt. Aber es sind entweder oder Fragen und ein paar kurze Dinge noch zu dir. Okay. Wir machen ein bisschen die Stimmungsmusik. Danke. Vielleicht ein bisschen leiser, damit man uns noch hört. Und dann starten wir direkt rein. Und zwar, Hunde oder Katzen? Hunde. Tee oder Kaffee? Kaffee. Auto oder Fahrrad? Auto, mal E-Auto zumindest. Da bist Du hier nicht Fahrradfahren Fahrradfahren ist so schrecklich, hast Fahrradfahren. Okay, hast Du auch Fahrradfahren? Nein, ich sag sie ist in der richtigen Runde mit E-Auto. Ja, ich weiß, das weiß ich auch. Wollte noch checken, ob das noch eine gleiche gemeinsame ist. Alles gut. Okay, sehr gut. Mac oder Windows? Oder. Oder. Das geht nicht. Ich benutz beides tatsächlich, aber zum Arbeiten Windows. IOS oder Android? IOS. Büro oder remote? Remote. Haben wir, sorry ganz kurz in der Leitung, da haben wir gleich drüber gesprochen, dass Sie komplett remote arbeiten in der schönen Ja. Ja, können wir ja jetzt. Können wir gleich gleich. Mach mach deine Runde fertig. Ja. Frontend oder Backend? Gibt's eigentlich so in der Spiel immer Slogan? Du, ich lass einfach so Game Logik oder oder UI? Ja, stimmt. Ja, also das Ding ist halt tatsächlich, dass wir diese Begriffe so gar nicht verwenden. Von daher boah keine Ahnung. Okay, die darfst Du skippen. Die darf ich skippen, danke. Teamwork oder Individualist? Teamwork. Was war deine erste Programmiersprache? Die erste, die ich gelernt hab, war c. Boah, krasser Einstich. Was war dein erster Computer? Das haben wir, glaub ich, nicht gesagt, nur dass Du irgendwann einen bekommen hast. Weißt Du das noch? Nee, Keine Ahnung, was das für einer war. Windows irgendwas. Okay. Gibt es eine Lieblingsapp, die Du hast? In Klammern, kein Spiel. Das ist die nächste Frage. Eine Lieblingsapp. Nee. Ich versuch mein Handy so wenig wie möglich zu verwenden. Und ein Lieblingsspiel? Oh, das ist jetzt spannend. Darf man das überhaupt? Mein Lieblingsspiel. Darf man jetzt sein nicht eigenes Spiel pitchen? Ist das dann so wie seine eigenen Kinder zu verraten? Mein eigenes Spiel ist auf jeden Fall nicht mein Lieblingsspiel. Ich ich kann die alle nicht mehr sehen, die ich entwickelt habe. Das ist ja furchtbar Ich hab die alle ja tausende Stunden gespielt. Also das ist selbstverständlich nicht mehr mein Lieblingsspiel. Nee, mein Lieblingsspiel ist Final Fantasy neunte Oh, cool. Sehr gut. Okay, dann lass uns Noch kurz über remote sprechen. Genau, lass uns noch kurz über remote sprechen. Ja. Ich hab eben nur, weil Du hast irgendwie so mitbekommen, ihr seid umgezogen, keine Ahnung was und Du wohnst in nirgendwo, das hab ich zumindest mitbekommen, weil zweimal das Internet wegen Satelliteninternet ausgefallen ist. Das hört sich schon alles nach seremote an. Ja, aber ja nicht nur, es ist ja nicht nur so, dass, also wie ich das verstanden hab, Kathrin, ne, dass dass Du jetzt ganz weit weg bist und alle deine anderen Leute sitzen noch zusammen in einem Office, sondern ihr seid ja alle so remote, ne? Genau, also wir haben alle seit der Gründung von zu Hause gearbeitet, also auch davor schon, als wir alle noch angestellt waren, haben wir eigentlich auch größtenteils von zu Hause gearbeitet und das ist dann halt so geblieben und dann kann man sich auch die Bürokosten sparen und so und das war eigentlich gut. Ja. Was was entgegnest Du Leuten, die behaupten, na ja, der größte Vorteil von diesem zusammen mit einem physischen Space zu arbeiten, ist es ja, dass es son Booster für ist es ja, dass es son Booster für Kreativität ist, wenn man im selben Raum ist und so. Und gerade in eurer Branche ja Kreativität doch superwichtig ist und ihr es ja offensichtlich auch schafft, ohne die gleichen Räumlichkeiten kreativ zu sein Also ich meine, wenn das für Leute funktioniert, ist das doch super. Keine Ahnung, vielleicht gibt's Leute, bei denen das so ist. Ja, ich seh da jetzt, also klar ist auch schön, die zu sehen alle und zusammen was zu machen und ich find das auch voll wichtig, dass wir das ab und zu mal machen und uns mal sehen, aber ich muss es nicht jede Woche haben. Ich muss es auch nicht jeden Monat haben und ich, nee, also das schreckt meine Kreativität jetzt gar nicht ein, dass ich die Leute nicht persönlich sehe. Was sind dann so die Tools, die ihr so im im klassischen Arbeitsalltag benutzt, so zusammen zu kollaborieren? Also wir benutzen, wir wir schreiben viel alle unsere Sachen in Notion auf, also haben da irgendwie eine Dokumentation, 'n Gamedesign Dokument, wo alles reinkommt, wo wir unsere Ideen aufschreiben und dann schickt man das eben durch, sagt hier guck mal, das hab ich mir überlegt, wie findet ihr das? Dann schreiben alle ihre Kommentare rein oder schreiben was dazu. Genau, wir benutzen Slack und unterhalten uns darüber oder mieten uns. Also wir haben immer jeden Morgen unser Daily und besprechen da unsere Sachen über Discord. Ja, das sind, glaub ich, so die Sachen. Ab und zu benutzen wir noch mal Miro, aber selten. Mhm. Ja. Interessant. Cool. Interessant. Wunderbar. Dann sind wir, glaub ich, durch. Ich hab keine Fragen mehr auf meiner Liste. Ich auch nicht. Außer die obligatorische wärst Du gern noch was anderes gefragt worden Frage. Nee, ich fand's schön. War 'n schönes Gespräch. Schön, mit euch zu quatschen. Cool. Mir auch. Mir ist grad doch noch eine letzte Frage eingefallen. Nein? Dennis Dennis, Aber ich ich schütte den Kopf, aber mach mal. Nein, Dennis Nick. Ja, okay, das war drauf. Wenn Du morgen nicht mehr in der Gamesbranche arbeiten dürftest, was würdest Du alternativ machen? Also ich würde, glaube ich, was ich würd glaub eher was draußen machen. Ich ich würd ich würd vielleicht Cool, wie Du grade Aber ich würd glaub, ja ich glaub, ich würd eher vielleicht nichts mit Computern machen oder keine Ahnung, vielleicht würde ich, na ja, also das ist schwer zu sagen, was will ich machen, was kann ich, also ich glaube, was ich machen könnte, wäre vielleicht irgendwie was mit Social Media oder so, weil ich's in meinem Job jetzt auch viel mach, da könnte ich vielleicht irgendwas machen, aber ob ich das glücklich machen würde, würde ich mal bezweifeln, wenn ich nur noch das machen würde, deswegen würde ich glaub eher, keine Ahnung, Tier Tierpflege oder so. Also ich kenn tatsächlich jemanden, der hat dieses ganze Computerzeug an Nagel gehängt und sich eine Schafherde zugelegt. Geil. Ja, könnt ich auch machen, könnt ich auch machen. Sehr gut, cool. Dann hoffen wir aber trotzdem noch, dass Du der Gamesbranche lange erhalten bleibst und also mal mindestens so lange, bis dieses Spiel fertig ist, weil da freu ich mich jetzt schon drauf. Das das schaffen wir grad noch. Es ist nicht mehr Wein. Wollt grad sagen. Das ist das. Berühmte letzte Woche im Podcast. Das ist so gut wie fertig. Wunderbar. Dann Katrin, danke für die Zeit, danke für das Gespräch. Danke euch. Danke Dennis und dann bleibt uns nichts mehr zu sagen, außer wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik und Feedback habt, immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder wie Katrin grade gesagt hat, immer gerne auf Social Media. Da sind wir auch viel unterwegs und ihr wisst, wo ihr uns finden könnt. Und ansonsten hören wir uns dann hier bald wieder. Tschau, tschau und bis zum nächsten Mal. Vielen Dank Katrin. Danke euch. Tschau, macht's 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen bei einer neuen programmierbar Podcastfolge, heute wieder in einem CTO Special und ich muss sagen, Dennis, ich stolper jedes Mal über diesen Namen CTO Special, weil wir hatten jetzt schon so oft Gäste hier, die irgendwie so formell gar keinen CTO sind. Ich glaub, wir brauchen mal 'n anderes, wie auch immer dafür.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ist CTO nicht auch son bisschen einen Synonym da draußen? Es fühlen sich, glaub ich, auch viele Leute von CTO angesprochen, gar nicht das offizielle.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also herzlich willkommen beim gefühlten CTO Special in der Programmier war. Unser heutiger Gast Katrin Rake, weiß gar nicht, Katrin, würdest Du dich als CTO fühlen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Hi, erst mal vielen Dank für die Einladung. Ich hatte das genau dieses Thema grade mit meinem Mitgründer besprochen und wir waren so, weiß ich jetzt auch nicht, ob ich das so sagen würde.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aber ist halt eine spannende Fragestellung für später, so. Was was vielleicht das dich zögern lässt zu sagen, ja, es ist, ich kann die CDU nennen, finden wir vielleicht raus.\n\nSpeaker 0: Unabhängig davon, was Katrin zögern lässt, ob sie sich CTO nennt oder nicht. Was uns dazu gebracht hat, sie trotzdem einzuladen, war, dass Katrin vor einiger sehr langer Zeit, ich glaub, es war der letzte Sommer oder nee, das letzte Frühjahr sogar schon, ne, ne,\n\nSpeaker 2: bei\n\nSpeaker 0: uns hier in Bad Nauheim zu Gast war als Teil des FEMDEVs Meetups und son bisschen darüber gesprochen hat, wie sie ihr eigenes Spielestudio Spy Garden Games gegründet hat und son bisschen ihre Geschichte erzählt hat. Ich dachte, boah, das ist ja voll toll und voll schade, dass nur irgendwie dreißig Leute hier sind und das jetzt hören. Und dann machen wir son bisschen Reichweitenboost und nehmen mal sone kurze Podcastfolge dazu auf. Kurz in Anführungszeichen, das ist der Moment, wo alle da draußen auf ihrem Podcastplayer gucken und merken, oh mein Gott, das sind doch fünfundneunzig Minuten, bis es zu Ende ist oder so. Mal genau diese Geschichte son bisschen zu beleuchten.\n\nWir haben ja ganz oft CTOs, Gründer, CPOs, was auch immer das hier, die mehr von so Software b two b Seite irgendwie kommen. Und ich fand's super cool, mal jemanden zu haben, der wirklich von soner Consumer Faceing Spielseite da drauf guckt, was, glaub ich, mehr Gemeinsamkeiten hat, als man denkt mit so Anwender Softwareentwicklungen, aber auch superviele interessante Unterschiede mitbringt und genau darüber wollen wir heute einmal sprechen. Aber die allererste Frage ist dann natürlich immer, Katrin, wie bist Du in diesen Zaubertrank gefallen und was hat dich zu Computern gebracht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Zu Computern gebracht, also das war, glaube ich, mein Papa. Das war irgendwie son Thema, was ich schon immer voll spannend fand, also irgendwie am Computer dann ganz früher mit Paint drum malen und so, fand ich immer voll faszinierend. Dann hab ich irgendwann mal 'n ersten Game Boy bekommen, da war ich neun, glaube ich und meine Mama sagt, seitdem hab ich nichts anderes mehr gemacht als Game Boy spielen und so ist es dann auch geblieben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und hast Du dann auch irgendwann schon einen Computer oder das ist eher immer oder immer? Ist es erst mal dieser Spielkonsolen Zugang gewesen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir haben dann irgendwann auch 'n Computer gehabt, ja. Da hab ich dann, da waren dann so Sachen wie die Löwenzahnspiele und so, der große Hit. Also da war ich vielleicht so, ja keine Ahnung, sechs, sieben, acht sowas den Dreh, als wir dann unseren ersten Computer hatten, noch ohne Internet und alles, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr gut. Und hat dein Papa einfach nur 'n technisches Interesse oder hat er was in der Richtung gemacht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Mein Papa war Radio- und Fernsehtechniker, also quasi auf jeden Fall auch im technischen Bereich immer gewesen, immer viel mit dem Computer gemacht, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist ja auch son Punkt, den wir schon 'n paarmal jetzt hier in den Biografien hatten, ne, dass Eltern das so mitbringen, aber quasi formell auch gar nichts damit zu tun hatten, aber weil sie natürlich auch aus soner Zeit kommen, wo es das formell für sie auch gar nicht so gab. Mhm. So, also meine Eltern kommen ja auch aus 'ner Zeit, wo niemand oder die allerwenigsten Leute Informatik oder so was studiert hatten oder oder Softwareentwicklung oder so was. Das gab's halt irgendwie so in den in den Sechzigern noch nicht, ohne mich jetzt hier zu sehr zu daten, ja. Aber das das das halt interessant, dass es trotzdem ja diesen diesen Typ Mensch schon gab, der so für Technik und für Computer und Maschinen irgendwie interessiert und das dann an seine Kinder weitergibt.\n\nUnd deshalb sitzen wir alle heute hier.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das\n\nSpeaker 1: stimmt. Aber bei mir hat's sogar eine Generation übersprungen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hat dein Opa dir Computer beigebracht? Ja. Spannend. Wow.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, der war immer technisch super superaffin und hat bis, ich weiß nicht, als der, ist über neunzig geworden, aber auch in seinen Mitte Achtzigern hatte er dann Tablet und Smartphone und ist damit drangeblieben und hat auch Sachen vorher Geil. Versucht, sich beizubringen und Programmiersprachen zu lernen und so. Und der hat den den ersten Commodore vierundsechzig, den wir damals hatten, der war von ihm. Der hat er so das Abgabeprodukt von ihm, ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: abfahrt. Das hoffe ich ja so für uns auch son bisschen, ne, dass wir nicht in dieses in diese Situation kommen, wo Technik uns irgendwann überholt und wir uns nichts mehr trauen, die Sachen irgendwie anzupassen, die die coolen Kids heute irgendwie als Spielzeug benutzen so. Dass wir auch mit neunzig noch da sitzen und oh, dieses iPad zweihundertsiebenunddreißig, das ist ja so toll oder so schlecht oder keine Ahnung was und so. Ja. Bin, bin\n\nSpeaker 2: ja auch Geht aber schnell, oder? Also ich weiß nicht, ob ich ich glaub, der neueste Scheiß ist jetzt Snapchat wieder. Das ist auch an mir vorbei gegangen und dann denke ich mir manchmal auch okay jetzt Jen Z ist doch dann manchmal weiter weg, als man denkt, hab ich das Gefühl?\n\nSpeaker 1: Hey, ich schreib mir mal die auf die Fahne, dass ich durch TikTok noch so wahnsinnig jung geblieben bin. Ja. Zumindest da son paar Trends und so was kenne. Also es gibt zumindest 'n paar Worte, die meinem Sohn unangenehm sind, wenn ich sie nenne und sage, woher weißt Du, woher kennst Du das Wort? Moment, das\n\nSpeaker 0: es gibt Worte, die deinem Sohn unangenehm sind, wenn Du sie sagst. Ja, ich Okay, nur nur, das musst Du für alle da draußen natürlich auch sagen, wie alt dein Sohn ist, dann wird's nämlich noch lustiger.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wieso? Der ist sieben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Du hast jetzt schon peinlich vor deinem Sohn.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das kriegt man, glaub ich, sehr früh hin. Mhm. Aber er sich zumindest wundert, weil ich gefragt habe, kennst Du das und das? Weil ich ja auch nicht weiß, was, ne, was dann deren jetzt Sprache und so was schon ist. Und da hatt ich zumindest den Da kann ich noch einigermaßen mithalten aktuell.\n\nOkay, krass. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Zurück zum Thema. Ganz, ganz, Entschuldigung. Nein, alles, alles gut. Ganz, ganz zweite Kurve geschlagen.\n\nOkay, das war so dein dein ersten Kontakt mit mit Computern und Spielen auch. Weißt Du noch oder kannst dich noch an den Moment in deinem Leben erinnern, wo Du das erste Mal gedacht hast, okay, das das ist 'n Beruf, da kann man eine Karrieretaus machen und das das ist was, für was ich mich auch interessiere?\n\nSpeaker 2: Relativ spät, weil mir nicht bewusst war, dass man Videospiele als Job machen kann. Also irgendwie hab ich da gar nicht drüber nachgedacht. Das war für mich so weit weg, dass ich also erstens ich rüber nicht wirklich drüber nachgedacht hab, dass da ja jemand sein muss, der das macht und wenn das jemand macht, dann auf jeden Fall nicht in Deutschland, sondern ne in USA vielleicht oder Japan, wie jetzt keine Ahnung Pokémon oder so, war das war das erste Spiel, was ich auf meinem eigenen Game Boy hatte. Da war mir klar, das kommt nicht aus Deutschland. Deswegen war das ganz lange gar nicht auf meinem Schirm und dann, also ich erinnere mich, dass ich bevor ich angefangen hab zu studieren, habe ich gesehen, dass es in Berlin den Game Design Studiengang gibt und hab da kurz mit geliebäugelt, aber das war mir auch irgendwie das ja wirkte für mich zu weit weg wie irgendwie eine Traumerei so.\n\nUnd dann habe ich angefangen Medieninformatik beziehungsweise mobile Medien zu studieren in Stuttgart und dort gab es Vorlesungen zum Thema Videospiele und die habe ich erst mal belegt, weil ich dachte Videospiele finde ich cool und ich mach die mal so aus Spaß. Gar nicht so wirklich mit dem Hintergedanken, ich mach das dann später als Job, sondern einfach, weil ich muss ja meine ECD erst voll kriegen und dann gehe ich dahin, weil ich's halt interessant finde und dann so irgendwann, ein, zwei Semester später, kam mir dann so der Gedanke, ach so, vielleicht könnte ich ja das tatsächlich mal machen, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt ist ja unter Leuten, die Informatik studieren, Spieleentwicklung immer son bisschen zweischneidig. Auf der einen Seite ist das das, was superviele Leute zum Computer gebracht hat und so dieses Grundinteresse geweckt hat, ja. Auf der anderen Seite haben ja Leute auch immer son bisschen Angst davor oder vielmals Angst davor, dass es sone brotlose Kunst ist, auch insbesondere in Deutschland, ja, weil ja jetzt ja ja nicht die großen Publisher sitzen, also obwohl die auch hier sitzen, aber daran denken halt die allermeisten irgendwie nicht, ne. Und da denken sie so, okay, was was mach ich denn dann, wenn ich so was studiert hab. Wie wie war das bei dir?\n\nAlso das das war der Moment, wo man gesagt hat, okay, man kann das hier lernen, man kann das ja auch machen. Wann war aber dieser Moment, wo Du hast, okay, das hat tatsächlich auch Hand und Fuß und ist mehr als nur planke Theorie und 'n Studiengang?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gute Frage. Also ich hab dann irgendwann noch mal ein bisschen weiter recherchiert und dann auch gesehen, dass es eben Studios auch in Deutschland gibt und dann auch teilweise getroffen irgendwie auf Events mal und ich glaub das war dann irgendwann so der Moment, wo ich dann tatsächlich Leute getroffen hab, die in diesem Beruf arbeiten, wo ich gedacht hab, ach so. Ja gut, die verdienen da offensichtlich Geld mit und können ihre Miete bezahlen, also muss das wohl irgendwie gehen. Ja, ich ja, ich glaub dadurch kam das, einfach Leute treffen und sehen, dass es geht, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und dann warst Du irgendwann mit deinem Studium fertig, so und wie hast Du den den Fuß in die Tür in dieser Branche gekriegt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich hab damals, als ich noch im Studium war, habe ich Leute getroffen von 'nem Game Studio auf 'nem Event auf so 'nem Studievent, die da waren und mit denen gequatscht, die eben 'n Studio hatten und dann warst Du ja vielleicht kann man ja mal 'n Praktikum machen, mal gucken und hab mich dann dort beworben für 'n Praktikum, dann als ich mein Praxissemester hatte, das war im fünfte Semester, glaube ich und hat das Glück gehabt, dass ich dann da genommen wurde und konnte dann Praktikum machen und dann habe ich weiter studiert und meinen Bachelor gemacht und dann irgendwann während ich meine Bachelorarbeit geschrieben hab 'n Anruf bekommen, ob ich bitte wiederkommen kann, weil gerade deren Programmierer gekündigt hatte und sich schnell jemand neuen brauchten. Und es hat bei mir natürlich super reingepasst, weil ich halt ja grade dann am gucken war, was wie's da weitergeht und bin dann einfach direkt dort angefangen direkt nachm Studium. Ja, Glück gehabt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie muss man sich das Leben als Jobeinsteiger in der Spieleentwicklung vorstellen? Ich hab ja, also von uns allen dreien hier in dieser Runde hab ich am allerwenigsten mit Spieleentwicklung zu tun. Ich arbeite zwar auch hier bei Lotum und hier fallen regelmäßig neue Spiele raus, aber ich hab damit nichts zu tun so, ja. Das machen andere Leute, die es damit mehr und besser auskennen. Und wenn wir hier sonst mit Entwicklern sprechen, sind das Ganze oft so Webenwicklern und ich fang dann irgendwie mal an, sone kleine Webseite zu machen oder son Widget als ersten Job in irgendwie 'nem bestehenden Projekt rein oder so was.\n\nWie ist der Einstieg für dich gewesen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das Studio, wo ich angefangen hab, war relativ klein. Also als ich da angefangen hab, waren das glaube ich so boah, vielleicht so zehn Leute oder so und das fand ich ziemlich cool, weil das bedeutete halt, dass ich quasi direkt an allen Stellen auch mit reinschauen konnte und an vielen Stellen irgendwie mit eingebunden war und das war nicht so, dass ich irgendwie nur so ganz am Rande 'n bisschen Features bauen durfte, die irgendwie dann am Ende niemand so wirklich sieht, sondern da war's tatsächlich irgendwie von Anfang an so, wir bauen jetzt dieses Feature, mach mal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was war das erste Spiel, an dem Du da mitgespielt hast? Was ging's da?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich muss mal kurz überlegen, also ich glaube, das erste boah, was war das denn da noch mal? Also in meinem Praktikum, das erste, was ich glaube ich gemacht hab, war eine App für Kinder, wo man aus so verschiedenen Characterne Oper zusammenbauen kann, die dann da gesungen haben und animiert wurden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sehr cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das war ganz witzig. Genau und als ich dann angefangen hab dort Vollzeit zu arbeiten, haben wir 'n Port gemacht von dem Spiel The InnerWorld, ist son Point and Click Adventure. Das war quasi schon fertig und wir haben davon dann, als ich gerade angefangen hab, noch die, ich glaub, Xbox- und Playstation Version gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, aber das heißt, es war schon technologisch, habt ihr mit oder mit 'nem anderen großen oder was? Also wie Also Keine Ahnung. Jan hat grade gesagt, Lotum, ja, wir machen auch Spiele. Ich würde aber sagen, ich wir sind trotzdem irgendwo relativ weit weg davon, weil wir jetzt nicht mit 'ner Game Engine arbeiten und nicht mehr was mit drei D gemacht haben und von daher irgendwie schon sehr nah an der nativen App Entwicklung oder auch an der Webentwicklung dran sind. Das Studio da war aber schon klassischer, was man unter Gaming versteht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also als ich mein Praktikum gemacht hab, da war es Flash und das erste den ersten Port, den wir da gemacht haben, als ich dann da Unity\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Zu portieren, genau. Und danach danach Unity dann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Flash muss man vielleicht auch für die Jüngeren da draußen erklären.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach, weiß ich nicht. Weiß ich nicht, man kriegt das noch\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist jetzt vorbei, also.\n\nSpeaker 1: Noch mal mit oder so. Alles, was früher auch heute link hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mit mit Flashmid, so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, gibt's nicht sone Historie, son Geschichtsunterricht in\n\nSpeaker 0: 'nem Studium, son älterer Ohr, vorne steht. Früher hatten wir ja nichts, wir mussten mit Flash arbeiten. Echt? Ja. Okay.\n\nMhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und da habt ihr an unterschiedlichen Spielen gearbeitet oder wie wie kann man da grundsätzlich sich den den den Ablauf vorstellen? Also gab es mehrere, die online waren und die mussten da waren oder gab's eine lange Phase dann eine Neuentwicklung? Wo hast Du son bisschen da mit dran gewirkt und wie war das aufgestellt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also als ich angestellt war, waren's hauptsächlich einfach Projekte, die wurden gemacht und dann waren die oft dann fertig, wurden\n\nSpeaker 0: releast und\n\nSpeaker 2: sind dann einfach fertig. Da war dann, also bei den großen großen und sind dann einfach fertig. Da war dann, also bei den großen Spielen war dann nicht mehr viel mit DLCs oder so. Irgendwie andere Zeiten, glaube ich. Kann man jetzt heutzutage nicht mehr so machen, glaube Oder na ja, kann man schon, aber genau und und halt Apps haben wir hab ich da gemacht und das war dann schon so, dass es da auch dann Updates gab und neuen neuen Content und so, dass da immer mal wieder was dazu kam und Bugfixes gemacht wurden und so.\n\nAlso von beidem ein bisschen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was waren denn so die die wichtigsten Skills, die Du aus diesem ersten Job mitgenommen hast?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich glaub das Wichtigste, was ich da mitgenommen hab, waren zum einen einfach, wie man Spiele macht, also wie es technisch funktioniert wie die Engine funktioniert das alles son bisschen einmal mitzukriegen wie man halbwegs schönen Code schreibt der funktioniert obwohl man irgendwie unter Zeitdruck arbeitet das andere Leute da auch dran arbeiten können dass man auch zusammen gut arbeitet wie es im Team funktioniert ne wie man die Aufgaben aufteilt und eben auch son bisschen wie die Games Branche funktioniert, dass man ja nicht einmal 'n Spiel macht und das dann auf Steam releast und dann verkauft sich das, so funktioniert's halt nicht, sondern da zählt dann noch 'n bisschen mehr dazu irgendwie auch Marketing zu machen und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist ja, glaub ich, son son großer Unterschied der Spieleentwicklung von anderer Softwareentwicklung unterscheidet, dass es eben jemanden gibt, der Spiele macht und dann gibt es da son Publisher, so, der auch irgendwie noch seine Hände mit dem Spiel hat. Kannst Du einmal für alle da draußen so in dreißig Sekunden Elevator Pitch erklären, wie da diese Dynamik eigentlich ist und wer da was genau von macht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das ist natürlich von Spiel zu Spiel auch immer noch mal 'n bisschen unterschiedlich, aber bei uns ist es jetzt Beispiel so, dass wir für unser aktuelles Spiel mit 'nem Publisher zusammenarbeitet, der zum einen das Spiel zu gutem großen Teil bezahlt. Das muss nicht immer so sein, aber bei uns ist es jetzt zum Beispiel so und sich Sachen kümmert wie das Marketing, dass man in Events kommt, Sachen wie QA, also Quality Assurance, die Lokalisation organisiert und so weiter, also quasi alles drum rum, was sozusagen nicht Entwicklung selber ist und dazu haben wir dann eben diese Partner, damit wir uns da quasi weniger darum kümmern müssen, was jetzt nicht heißt, dass wir gar kein Marketing machen. Also wir machen selber zum Beispiel auch unsere Social Media Kanäle und so weiter, aber es ist so ein bisschen aufgeteilt und nimmt so ein bisschen die Last, alles machen zu müssen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Dennis.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und später bekommt man, ist es son einmal Ding oder ist man praktisch trotzdem noch beteiligt? Also ist der bezahlt der Publisher einmal das Spiel und sagt so okay, ich nehm es jetzt ab und dann ist fertig oder hat man dann noch irgendwelche Royities oder sind das ist das auch immer unterschiedlich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also es kann auch unterschiedlich sein. Ich es gibt soweit, ich weiß noch Publisher, die einfach auftragsmäßig was abgeben und Du dann keine Royities oder nur sehr wenig Royities kriegst. Genau, bei uns ist jetzt zum Beispiel so, dass wir 'n Teil bekommen von von dem von den Verkäufen. Genau und je nachdem, manchmal musst Du noch das reccoupen, was Du bekommen hast, manchmal nicht, manchmal nur 'n Teil, gibt's ganz unterschiedliche Varianten davon.\n\nSpeaker 1: Da sind jetzt, also ich würd da gern noch 'n bisschen mehr einsteigen. Ich frag mich nur gerade, ob wir einmal noch, weil wir jetzt ja auch schon 'n bisschen darüber reden, was Du jetzt machst, ob wir einmal noch uns dem Lebenslauf weiterhangeln zudem, in welcher Rolle Du jetzt bist, bevor ich dann noch da mehr drüber frage.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also die die Einstiegsfrage dazu wär ja, jetzt hast Du quasi deinen ersten Job gemacht. Wie lange hast Du das durchgehalten, bis Du dein eigenes Studio gemacht hast? Und warum durchgehalten?\n\nSpeaker 2: Oh, das klingt jetzt aber sehr negativ.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also bei den meisten, die mit denen wir hier sprechen, ist es tatsächlich so, dass dass so der Tenor ist, boah, irgendwann wollten sie halt, ne, so mehr selbstbestimmt und und mehr Kontrolle und deshalb was Eigenes, also das ist schon son gefühlt immer wie son Befreiungsschlag auch klingt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, nee, kann ich auf jeden Fall mitfühlen. Also ich hab das fünf Jahre durchgehalten und dann wars genau ein bisschen wie Du sagst, ich hatte einfach das Gefühl ich will das anders machen, ich hab eine andere Idee davon, wie das funktionieren soll und ich glaub anders geht's besser und ich will einfach nicht, dass mir jemand sagt, was ich machen soll. Finde ich auch blöd. Ich will selber entscheiden. Genau und dann hatte ich meine drei Co Founder*innen, die denen ging's auch so und dann hat sich das gut\n\nSpeaker 0: angeboten. Wie habt ihr zueinander gefunden?\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir haben alle im gleichen Studio gearbeitet.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, das war also gleichzeitig noch 'n schwerer Schlag für das Studio, wenn Du sagst, das waren so ungefähr zehn Leute und ihr nehmt da 'n paar schon mit, dann ist natürlich auch\n\nSpeaker 2: Also, zu dem Zeitpunkt waren's sehr viel mehr.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Da\n\nSpeaker 2: waren's, glaube ich, die dreißig oder so Und es gab es gab eine große Runde Layouts. Das heißt, sie haben das teilweise auch selber entschieden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also war jetzt nicht, dass wir jetzt irgendwie Leute geklaut haben oder so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Also quasi eine coole Opportunity eigentlich gemacht und One Life kivacy Lampons, McLaminay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, es war son bisschen, na ja gut, wir haben jetzt irgendwie alle keinen Job mehr. Jetzt können wir uns auch probieren. Schlimmer wird's nicht mehr. Noch nix zu verlieren grade, also Ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: wir lachen, aber ist ja eigentlich genau die richtige Einstellung so, ne. Also wenn nicht jetzt, wann dann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau und dann zu dem Zeitpunkt war's so, dass es in Baden Württemberg eben die Möglichkeit gab, eine Förderung zu bekommen, die die wir dann zum Glück auch bekommen haben und das deswegen eben auch machen konnten überhaupt, weil sonst hätten wir halt gar nicht die Kohle gehabt, das überhaupt zu starten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gab's, also ohne zu zu negativ dann über den Job vorher zu reden, aber gab's irgendwie Dinge, auf die ihr euch geeinigt habt oder schnell einigen konntet, die ihr definitiv anders machen wolltet? Und in welche Bereichen lagen die?\n\nSpeaker 2: Viele Sachen, viele, viele Sachen. Ja, ist doch klar, oder? Also in welchen Bereichen, also es war, glaube ich, viel, also für mich war ein großer Grund, weswegen ich selbstständig sein wollte und so arbeiten wollte, wie wir es jetzt machen, dass ich ein für mich war einfach diese Firma mit ungefähr dreißig Leuten hat sich für mich einmal zu groß angefühlt und mir gefällt es viel besser in 'nem ganz ganz kleinen Team zu arbeiten, weil diese große Firma hat einfach so wahnsinnig viel Zeit gefressen mit Meetings und Absprachen und dann hat jemand was nicht mitbekommen, dann wurden Sachen doppelt gemacht oder verworfen, irgendwie unsichtbare Hierarchien, das fand ich blöd und ich ja, das war son bisschen, was wir dann anders machen wollten und es gab auch teilweise Phasen, wo dann doch gecrunched wurde, irgendwie viele Überstunden gemacht haben auf eine Art, die ich nicht so, die mir nicht so gefallen hat. Genau, wo wir gesagt haben, wir wollen das anders machen. Also wir sind auch relativ schnell, nachdem wir angefangen haben, dazu übergegangen, nur vier Tage die Woche zu arbeiten, was mir sehr viel besser gefällt, wo wo ich's Gefühl hab, wir können sehr viel effektiver einfach arbeiten und es irgendwie uns allen besser geht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und macht ihr, nur zur Verständnisfrage, macht ihr dann viermal acht oder viermal zehn Stunden?\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir machen viermal Fünfzehn. Also auf keinen Fall zehn. Vielleicht sogar 'n bisschen weniger als acht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Je nachdem. Also jetzt gerade sind wir in 'ner Phase, wo, also wir haben jetzt letzte Woche unseren Betameiston abgegeben, da sind's eher acht, sonst sind's auch manchmal bisschen weniger als acht Stunden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, cool. Und Dennis deine Frage noch mal umzudrehen, gab's auch irgendwas, wo ihr euch sehr schwergetan hattet, dann 'n Konsens am Anfang zu finden mit wie wollen wir gemeinsam dieses und jenes machen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also mir fällt jetzt auf jeden Fall grad spontan dazu nichts ein. Ich glaub, was es uns einfacher gemacht hat, war, dass wir eben vorher alle schon zusammengearbeitet haben und ja wussten, wie die anderen ticken Und und von daher uns ja schon dazu entschieden haben, dass wir das zusammen machen, weil wir schon geahnt haben, dass wir das alle ungefähr gleich sehen. Darum gab's jetzt keine großen Sachen, wo wir uns uneinig waren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, dann lass mich die Frage anders stellen, weil ich dachte eigentlich, es kommt jetzt was anderes. Aber ich versuch's noch mal. Ich würde behaupten so, Spieleentwicklerinnen sind ja im Schnitt wahrscheinlich etwas kreativer als der durchschnittliche Softwareentwickler so, ja? Also es kommt ja einfach mit der Branche so auch son bisschen, ne? Ne.\n\nWie schwer oder leicht ist es euch da gefallen, euch zu dritt auf überhaupt eine Spielidee und ein Konzept zu einigen, was man dann initial verfolgt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Zu viert sind wir\n\nSpeaker 1: So, sorry.\n\nSpeaker 2: Am Anfang. Ja. Nicht schwer.\n\nSpeaker 1: Da holt er auch nicht drauf hinaus. Aber was redet\n\nSpeaker 2: was Ich überleg gerade, was deine was was wo Du was\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber\n\nSpeaker 2: was ich was ich jetzt erzählen sollte.\n\nSpeaker 1: Da kommt da kommt ja noch dahinter, was er was er eigentlich hören wollte. Nein,\n\nSpeaker 0: aber ist ja okay,\n\nSpeaker 1: ist ja\n\nSpeaker 0: okay, aber\n\nSpeaker 1: ich dachte\n\nSpeaker 0: nur, weißt Du, wenn wenn wir jetzt hier bei Lotum drei random Leute an einen Tisch setzen und sagen, überlegt euch mal ein gemeinsames Spiel. Ja. So, ich glaube schon, dass die länger brauchen würden, zu überlegen, ne, was fürn Genre, was fürn Stil, für wen ist das? Also da da sind ja so viele Entscheidungen irgendwie auch Zeit. Ich mein, ist ja cool, dass es für euch so geklappt hat und quasi da da ihr euch direkt einig wart, aber ich hätte da, damit hätt ich nicht gerechnet, sagen wir's.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Aber das zu verstehen, dann müssen wir jetzt noch, da komm ich 'n bisschen auf die Frage, ich eigentlich eben noch son bisschen im Kopf hatte. Also zur bisschen Struktur. Ihr seid vier oder Du hast gerade gesagt, ihr wart, also ihr habt zu viert gegründet, ist das richtig?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Jetzt haben wir mittlerweile eine Person eingestellt, eine Social Media Managerin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, aber die vier Gründerinnen sind noch dabei.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay. Und dann da meine Frage, wenn man Ich hab verstanden, ihr arbeitet auch jetzt mit einem Publisher zusammen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und wie war das jetzt in dem konkreten Fall? Also erstens habt ihr schon habt ihr seitdem ihr gegründet habt, ein Spiel oder habt ihr schon verschiedene Sachen gemacht? Und kommt dann der Publisher mit einer Idee und sagt, hier macht mal das oder pitcht ihr eine Spielidee, einem Publisher?\n\nSpeaker 2: Die Spielideen kommen von uns. Also wir haben jetzt, das ist jetzt unser zweites Spiel, was diesen Sommer rauskommen wird. Was aber tatsächlich das erste Spiel war, mit dem wir angefangen haben zu entwickeln. Also unser großes Spiel entwickeln wir quasi seit zweitausendeinundzwanzig und haben dann einen Prototypen gemacht, haben die Förderung bekommen und haben das hundert Jahre gefühlt gepitcht, bis wir dann endlich die Zusage hatten, dass wir das machen könnten und wir genug Geld haben, die Produktion zu machen. In der Zwischenzeit haben wir dann unser zweites Spiel, was dann unser erster Release war, gemacht.\n\nDas Spiel heißt Sticky Business, ist wesentlich kleiner auch und das kam eben im Sommer zweitausenddreiundzwanzig raus. Wo wollt ihr die Frage hin? Hab ich die Frage schon beantwortet?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau. Also das heißt, der Publisher hilft da an der Stelle dann beim Vermarkten und dem dem rausbringen, aber ihr hattet praktisch eine Idee und wollt ihr das machen. Und ist das der, also sind die beiden Spiele bei dem gleichen Publisher oder sucht man sich da immer neue Leute?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, sind zwei unterschiedliche Publisher. Also wir hatten das Spiel auch dem, also das Spiel, was wir jetzt grade machen, auch den Publisher gepitcht, mit dem wir das erste gemacht haben, aber es war also auch einfach zu vom vom Scope hat's einfach nicht zusammengepasst. Das ist der Grund, weswegen es dann zwei unterschiedliche geworden sind.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, die Game Publisher haben auch ihr eigenes ihr eigenes Genre Feld, indem sie irgendwie aktiv sind oder was gut zu ihnen passt und\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, viele haben, genau, viele haben son bisschen son Genre, was sie machen, manche auch nicht. Also der Publisher, mit dem wir jetzt grade unser Spiel haben, die machen auch viele verschiedene Genres. Sie sind nicht so spezialisiert. Aber manche sind auch sehr spezialisiert und machen nur zum Beispiel Strategiespiele oder so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie kommt das bei 'nem Publisher an, wenn ihr eigentlich gerade in eurem ersten Spiel arbeitet und ihr dann sagt, ah, wir sind zwar noch nicht fertig, aber wir hätten hier noch diese coole zweite Idee wenn ihr die nicht mit uns machen wollt, dann gehen wir irgendwo anders hin und arbeiten mit jemand anderem zwischenzeitlich schon mal daran weiter, obwohl wir noch nicht mal das fertig gemacht haben, was wir uns eigentlich zusammen vorgenommen hatten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also der Ablauf war ja so, wir hatten unser erstes großes Spiel, das haben wir angefangen zu pitchen. Ja. Dann haben die sich ja hundert Jahre Zeit gelassen und in der Zeit haben wir halt was anderes gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn sie uns da schlecht von abhalten, das zu machen. Okay. Genau, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber trotzdem ist ja dann auch in dem Moment der der Pitchzusage, ist ja quasi schon so dieser Beigeschmack von, okay, wir machen das jetzt mit euch, aber übrigens, wir haben schon angefangen dieses dieses zweite Spiel irgendwie auch zu machen, ne, aber das war kein Problem dann in der Unterhaltung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, das war kein Problem. Ich glaube, es war, wenn ich jetzt zurückgucke, vielleicht sogar eher positiv, weil das Spiel halt sehr gut angekommen ist und es klar war, es ist was Kleines, wir arbeiten da ne, das ist dann abgeschlossen, wenn wir die Produktion von dem großen Spiel anfangen, wird das Kleine fertig sein und wenn, dann ist es halt nur positiv, weil man quasi dann die Audience ja von dem Spiel auch noch mal rüberziehen kann und sagen, wir haben hier noch 'n Spiel, wollt ihr das nicht auch ausprobieren? Also das war kein, also zumindest so wie ich das mitbekommen hab, war das kein Problem.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und habt ihr euch die Aufgaben dort irgendwie klar vorher definiert irgendwie aufgeteilt oder macht ihr alle ähnliche Dinge?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also es ist schon aufgeteilt, wir haben eine eine Game Artist, die die ganze Pixelart macht und eine Game Designerin, die quasi Konzepte macht und Mechaniken und alles in Unity zusammenbastelt, die Szenen zum Beispiel zusammenbaut und noch einen weiteren Programmierer, der auch tatsächlich eigentlich nur programmiert und mich. Ich mach tatsächlich 'n bisschen ein Mischding, also ich programmier, aber ich mach auch Gamedesignonzepte, also bei mir ist son bisschen was dazwischen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und hat sich das so organisch ergeben oder war das eine bewusste Entscheidung bei allen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also es war so, dass wir eben in dem Studio, wo wir alle vorher zusammengearbeitet haben, in diesen Rollen schon gearbeitet haben. Mhm. Beziehungsweise ich war vorher nur Programmiererin. Ich hab vorhin eigentlich kein Gamedesign gemacht. Das kam, ich war ehrlich gesagt, weiß ich gar nicht so genau, wie das kam.\n\nVielleicht einfach, weil ich immer, weil ich immer alles weil ich immer alles besser weiß sein. Aber nee, das war schön, weil wir hatten eben diese Rollen, aber dadurch, dass wir jetzt so eine so ein kleines Team sind, können alle viel mehr auch in anderen Bereichen 'n bisschen gucken und ausprobieren und so hat sich das dann son bisschen ergeben, dass ich da auch 'n bisschen mehr machen kann im Bereich Game Design, was mir dann irgendwie auch dann Spaß gemacht hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und jetzt kommen wir vielleicht zu der eingangs gestellten Frage zurück, wie sehr Du dich als CTO fühlst oder auch nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also ja, das zählt da son bisschen mit rein, ne, dass es bei mir dann doch so irgendwie sich in den letzten Jahren entwickelt hat, dass ich gar nicht nur programmiere, was ich auch total gut finde, weil ich das Gefühl hab, das ergänzt sich total gut, wenn's jemanden gibt, der quasi auf beiden Seiten sieht. Was was geht denn und was geht nicht? Es ergänzt sich, es ergänzt sich total gut, jemanden zu haben, der auf beiden Seiten so ein bisschen gucken okay, ich hab jetzt diese super Idee, aber ich weiß auch, wenn ich das jetzt vorschlage, dann müssen wir diese ganze diesen ganzen Code umbauen und dann da vielleicht schon mal ein bisschen Auge drauf hat, was geht und was nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und Du hattest hattest ja eingangs auch gesagt, na ja, das ist eine eine Diskussion, die Du auch im Team grade geführt hast so, ja. Wie wie kam das denn auf? Also war das jetzt quasi eine bewusste Entscheidung, okay, Du Du fühlst dich jetzt in dieser Rolle oder ist das so irgendwie gewachsen über Zeit, wie wie wie lief denn diese Diskussion im Team?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich glaube, es ist mehr einfach gewachsen, als dass wir irgendwann gesagt haben so und ab jetzt mache ich fünfzig Prozent das und fünfzig Prozent das oder siebzig Prozent das und dreißig Prozent das, sondern es ist halt ganz oft so, dass man hat halt also bei unserem Vertrag, den wir mit unserem Publisher haben, haben wir jeden Monat ne, MyStones und da steht halt drin, das und das muss gemacht werden und wenn das gemacht werden muss, dann muss das halt jemand machen. So und wenn jetzt mehr Gamedesign Arbeit da ist, dann muss die halt jemand machen und ich glaub, das war einfach auch ein großer Teil, dass einfach so war, gut, das muss jetzt gemacht werden. Wer macht das? Wer kann das machen? Ich kann das machen und mir macht's Spaß.\n\nAlso ja, ich glaube, das ist einfach zu großen Teilen dadurch gekommen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also wir können feststellen, Du bist nicht fehlplatziert in diesem Podcast hier. Unabhängig von von Titel und allem anderen, weil das ja im Prinzip geht das ja genau das Mindset, was Du grade grade beschrieben hast. Wie siehst Du denn persönlich so die Entwicklung von eurem Studio und von dir so? Seht ihr euch in fünf oder zehn Jahren auch wieder mit dreißig Mann am Start und unterschiedlichen Spielen und unterschiedlichen Teams und keine Ahnung was? Oder versucht ihr, auf Biegen und Brechen bei fünf Leuten, vier Leuten zu bleiben und jeder im Prinzip die Tätigkeit, die er genau jetzt macht, die nächsten fünf Jahre noch irgendwie fortzuführen.\n\nWas was nimmt man sich vor, wenn man 'n Spielestudio aufmacht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich bei uns ist es, glaub ich, relativ klar, dass wir zumindest aktuell alle sagen, nee, ist grad eine gute Größe. Ich will jetzt nicht, keine Ahnung, was ich in zehn Jahren denke, vielleicht denke ich da was ganz anderes kann ja sein. Jetzt grade denke ich, nee, ich bin damit sehr zufrieden, dass wir 'n kleines Team sind und genauso mag ich arbeiten, Deswegen haben wir gar keine Pläne, irgendwie großartig Leute einzustellen und da sind wir uns, glaub ich, auch sehr einig, weil, ja, weil's einfach, glaub ich, nicht so richtig für uns ist grade.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wenn ihr so zufrieden seid mit dem Setting, was ihr jetzt grade habt, ihr habt, wenn ich mich an den Talk erinnert, zwanzig zweiundzwanzig gegründet, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Einundzwanzig Anfang zweitausendzweiundzwanzig haben wir offiziell die Firma gestartet, genau, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also so oder so, ihr habt ja jetzt schon son paar Jahre aufm Buckel damit. Was wäre denn so der Rat, den Du der Katrin von vor 'n paar Jahren mitgeben würdest, sagen wir das, hey, wenn dir jetzt dieses Spielestudio startet, das sind son paar Dinge, auf die solltet ihr von Anfang an irgendwie achten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also mir ganz persönlich würde ich, glaube ich, den Rat geben, nicht son großes Spiel zu machen, weil ich grade so viel hab, es dauert einfach alles viel zu lange und das Genre, also wir machen gerade 'n Farming Game, das war halt zweitausendeinundzwanzig total angesagt. Mittlerweile gibt's halt Farming Games wie Sand am Meer und wir sind damit vielleicht einfach sogar auch bisschen spät, obwohl wir auch noch mal son bisschen Twist haben, deswegen ich mal, dass es trotzdem gut ankommt, aber für uns, also weil wir ja so ein kleines Team sind, ist es glaube ich total von Vorteil einfach kleine Spiele zu machen und jetzt gerade, wie die Gamesbranche so aussieht, ist es glaube ich generell eine gar nicht so eine schlechte Idee, weil's halt gerade mit Funding und so ziemlich schwierig ist, weil viele Publisher ihre Geldbeutel erst mal zugemacht haben und nicht mehr so viel Geld da ist wie irgendwie nach Corona, wo der große Boom war. Darum ist das glaube ich grade son bisschen der Way to go für uns, also nach diesem großen Spiel werden wir auch auf jeden Fall erst mal wieder was Kleines machen. Ob das jetzt der Rat ist, dem ich jedem Spielestudio geben würde, keine Ahnung.\n\nVielen wahrscheinlich schon, aber vielleicht auch nicht jedem.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber lass uns doch technisch trotzdem mal über diese diese größeren Spiele und Spielideen sprechen, einfach weil es vielleicht das Anspruchsvollere auch ist, ja. Oder vielleicht auch nicht, kannst Du mir gerne widersprechen, ja. Vielleicht ist es auch anspruchsvoller, irgendwie eine Mechanik in 'nem kleineren Spiel zu implementieren, weil einfach weniger weniger Space dafür da ist. Aber wenn Du jetzt sagst, ihr habt eure Idee ist 'n Farming Spiel oder andersrum. Bevor wir über die Idee und die Technik dahinter reden, willst Du vielleicht ganz kurz einmal das Spiel abreißen, damit alle da draußen son Einblick haben.\n\nIch hab's ja schon mal im Talk gesehen, aber vielleicht bin\n\nSpeaker 1: da da drauf. Abreißen kann man auch unterschiedlich interpretieren, aber Moment einen kurzen Abriss geben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Lecker damit. Einen kurzen Abriss geben. Ja. Ja. Stell dir vor, ich bin dein potenzieller Publisher und Du musst mir jetzt dieses Spiel witchen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Alles klar. Also das Spiel, was wir machen, ist ein Witchy Farming Game. Also 'n Spiel, das in 'ner Hexenwelt quasi spielt und der Clou ist, dass Du das Farming aber nicht selber machst, sondern Du hast Arkana constructs, das sind so kleine roboterartige Wesen und die kannst Du verzaubern und unter uns ist jetzt geheim nicht weitererzählen, aber das Verzauberndes Programmieren, sagen wir aber im Spiel niemandem, Programmieren ist gruselig. Darum verzaubert man die und kann dann damit seine Farm automatisieren und es gibt noch eine Geschichte, also das ganze ist story based, dass die Hexe, die da die dich trainiert, verschwindet und verschiedene Portale in der Welt auftauchen, die alle völlig gehen und in der Story musst Du dann halt dich mit den Leuten anfreunden und die Portale wieder stabilisieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Ich glaub, das haben alle da draußen verstanden. Ich fand's auch megacool, als ich das erste Mal gehört hab. Ich find's immer noch früher, als ich jetzt das zweite oder dritte Mal gehört hab. Wie nähert ihr euch denn technisch sonem Spiel?\n\nWeil also allein von dem, was ich jetzt schon gehört hab, stell ich mir vor, da sind halt sehr viele unterschiedliche Systeme beteiligt. Da ist da sind irgendwie Produktionsketten mit drin von verschiedenen Rohstoffen. Da ist 'n Balancing drin von, was brauchst Du wie oft und was kostet wie viel und was bringt welche Werte irgendwie mit. Da sind eigenständig handelnde Akteure irgendwie drin, deine Roboter, ja, die ja irgendwie ohne dich laufen müssen, aber trotzdem irgendwie Teil von von dieser Welt und und der Engine und der Run Time irgendwie sein müssen. Wenn ihr jetzt diese Idee habt, wie fangt ihr an, diese Systeme einzeln runterzubrechen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Also das war auf jeden Fall eine Herausforderung, weil das Spiel schon 'n Umfang hat, wo es auch relativ lange gedauert hat, bis man erst mal 'n Game Loop zusammen hat. Das Spiel, was wir vorher gemacht haben, Sticky Business, da macht man Sticker, Du bastelst Sticker aus verschiedenen Elementen. Da hatten wir nach einem Tag einen Game Loop, wo Du schon was machen konntest und sehen konntest, ach so, das ist das Spiel.\n\nSpeaker 0: Vielleicht einmal für alle Nichtspielentwickler da draußen, was ist ein Gamelop?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ah, der Gamelop ist quasi, was Du im Spiel immer und immer wieder machst. Also zum Beispiel in 'nem Fighting Game würdest Du Leute verprügeln. Eine Runde Fighting Game wär zum Beispiel dann ein Loop, jemand verprügeln und gewinnen oder verlieren und dann noch mal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wenn Du davon sprichst, dass ihr einen Game Loop hattet, dann redeten wir aber immer noch über die konzeptionelle Ebene davon. Also quasi sich einmal Gedanken zu machen, was gehört da alles dazu oder wirklich von 'nem funktionierenden Proof of Concect, wo man einmal durchklicken kann?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, ich rede von im in der Engine, sodass ich's spielen kann oder ausprobieren kann eben, genau. Okay. Genau, das war was, was bei unserem vorigen Spiel einen Tag gedauert hat. Jetzt hat's bei bei Richel of Raven, keine Ahnung Wochen gedauert, bis man da überhaupt was hat, was was man komplett einmal spielen kann und was dann irgendwie Sinn ergibt. Und da haben wir es so gemacht, wir haben zuerst einen Prototypen gemacht, den konnte man auch schon komplett spielen, aber natürlich 'n viel kleineren Teil, also es waren viel weniger Pflanzen, viel weniger Constructs, viel weniger Character, die dabei sind, aber einmal quasi den Vertical Slice, was macht man in diesem Spiel, diesen Tag Nacht Rhythmus zum Beispiel, den man in Farming Games hat, dass dann über Nacht immer die Pflanzen wachsen und so weiter.\n\nFür den Prototyp haben wir, glaube ich, ja, ich glaub so drei, vier Monate oder so gebraucht, bis der bis man den quasi ausprobieren konnte und wir den pitchen konnten. Und was wir dann gemacht haben, als wir dann die Produktion angefangen haben, ist tatsächlich, wir haben quasi noch mal alles von vorne aufgebaut, weil der Prototypcode halt unmöglich war und es furchtbar gewesen wäre da drauf aufzubauen, weil das halt gar nicht so angelegt war, dass man das noch super erweitern kann, so es sollte einfach nur schnell sein, damit wir zeigen können, das hier soll das Spiel sein. Genau und dann haben wir in der Produktion quasi jedes einzelne Feature noch mal neu aufgebaut, aufgeteilt in was was ist ein Feature, zum Beispiel, dass die Zeit läuft, es Nacht wird, dann die Pflanzen wachsen jeden Tag, dass man die wässern kann, alles nacheinander aufgeteilt in kleine Lotion Tasks und dann werden die nacheinander abgearbeitet, bis man was spielen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie muss ich mir das in der in der Spieleentwicklung vorstellen? Ich komm ja nur aus so klassischer Softwareentwicklung und da ist es ja so, dass ich viele Probleme ja auch schon durch Dependencies lösen kann. Ich bau jetzt hier meine Web App und ich will irgendwie 'n Log in System haben, da gibt's irgend 'n irgend 'n Modul, was mir auf NPM oder Packages oder Cargo oder wo auch immer, in welcher Sprache ich unterwegs bin, irgendwie mir rein installieren kann. Dann hab ich son User Management und 'n Log in System und vielleicht 'n Social Login oder keine Ahnung was oder ich bin eine Datenbankanbindung, das kann ich mir auch irgendwie reinziehen und muss sie noch konfigurieren. Wenn ich jetzt in sonem Spiel bin, ja, natürlich bringt die Engine schon son bisschen was mit, so.\n\nAber ich dachte zum Beispiel, na, ich will son Tag Nacht Zyklus haben oder ich will hier son son Rohstoffsystem haben. Ist das was, was man sich quasi für sein Spiel von Grund auf selbst bauen und designen muss oder ist das auch was, wo man son bisschen son Baukastensystem hat und sagen kann, na ja, das hole ich mir von irgendwo her und passt das noch an oder es gibt's vielleicht komplett out of the box schon irgendwie. Was musstet ihr wirklich neu erfinden und wo konntet ihr auf anderen Sachen aufbauen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also für Gamechaniken tatsächlich oft schwierig, weil man will ja auch neue Mechaniken sich ausdenken, die nicht sind wie bei anderen Spielen, ansonsten könnten die Leute auch einfach die anderen Spiele spielen, müssten nicht dein Spiel spielen. Es gibt schon bestimmte Sachen, wo wir auch Plug ins benutzen, also zum Beispiel für den Input, dass irgendwie verschiedene Controller erkannt werden und so weiter, das haben wir jetzt zum Beispiel nicht selber gebaut oder was ich auch schon mal benutzt hab, ist irgendwie 'n Safe System als Plug in runtergeladen. Das haben wir jetzt für unser jetziges Spiel selber gemacht, aber habe ich auch schon als Plug in benutzt. Solche Sachen, die eher so Systeme sind, die so unten drunter liegen, das funktioniert schon ganz gut. Genau, aber ja für tatsächlich Mechaniken eher selber in den meisten Fällen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und das macht jetzt auch in, ich glaub, ich weiß gar nicht, ob wir das gefragt haben, Unity.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Genau. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und für alle da draußen, die noch nicht mit Unity gearbeitet haben, wie arbeitet man mit Unity? Das ist ja bestimmt nicht so low Level Assemblure Code, sondern was macht man da?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also Du hast halt deinen Editor, wo Du das Level oder quasi die Szene schon drin sehen kannst und da verschieden die Objekte rumschieben kannst und wie Du sie haben willst und auf den Objekten liegen, das sind Gameobjects, die haben ein sogenanntes Monobehavior und in denen kannst Du deinen Code dann schreiben, c-Sharp-Code, denen quasi zu sagen, was die machen sollen, ne. Also laufen oder sich bewegen oder\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und Du hattest vorhin ja auch schon mal erwähnt, dass einer der wichtigen Skills, die Du aus dem aus deinem ersten Job mitgenommen hast, war so dieses, wie arbeitet man im Team eigentlich an sonem Projekt zusammen, ne. Wie macht ihr das jetzt? Also hast eben schon gesagt, na ja, es gibt so verschiedene Notan Tasks, ja, und dann wird es einfach nacheinander abgearbeitet. Das ist dann sehr simpel, so. Ich hoffe ich hoffe für euch, es ist so, aber wahrscheinlich ist es nicht ganz so einfach, Wenn er jetzt son Task ist, ja, wir brauchen ein Tag Nacht System, so.\n\nMacht es dann eine Person alleine oder ist das dann so, na ja, da brauch ich, ich hab wirklich keine Ahnung, ja, aber ich sag mal so ganz einfach, da brauch ich einen einen Sonne- und ein Mondsymbol, also braucht muss mir hier mein Grafikmensch erst mal was machen, dann kann ich das irgendwie im im Spiel implementieren, dann macht jemand anderes den Loop davon. Oder ist das eher so, einer macht alles davon und own quasi dieses ganze Feature? Wie seid ihr da so aufgestellt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also zuerst mal müssen die Notion Charts natürlich irgendwo herkommen, ne. Also die erscheinen nicht einfach. Ja, ja. Genau, also das machen wir meistens so, dass wir uns einfach auch zusammensetzen und überlegen, was was wollen wir denn jetzt eigentlich machen? Was soll denn eigentlich passieren?\n\nUnd dann uns eben die Tasks erstellen oder irgendwie zusammenschreiben. Genau, dann ist es normalerweise so, wenn ich jetzt, wenn er jetzt sagt zum Beispiel das Tag und Nacht Feature, das würde wahrscheinlich eine Gamedesigner mal aufschreiben, was soll denn da eigentlich passieren in im kleinsten Detail, so wie lange soll das dauern, was passiert, wenn's dunkel wird, was passiert, wenn man schlafen geht und so weiter und so weiter. Dann kriegt das Notion Kärtchen 'n Programmierer zugeschoben, das einzubauen und dann denkt man, oh die Programmieragrafiken, die wir da reingemacht haben, sind aber ganz schön hässlich, vielleicht sogar das Kärtchen mal noch der Artist zu schieben. Die dann noch entsprechend Grafiken macht und 'n Bett malt oder irgendwie die das das Licht einstellt, damit man auch sieht, dass es dunkel wird und so weiter. Also es sind ist eigentlich in jedem Feature sind eigentlich alle irgendwie immer 'n bisschen beteiligt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Okay. Ja. Und vielleicht eine eine letzte technische Frage dazu. Wie macht ihr grade in sonem kleinen Team Quality Assurance?\n\nSo, weiß nicht, gibt's da gibt's das automatisierte Tests, gibt's da Juni Tests über die die Game Logik? Macht man das nur so end zu end, indem man das das Spiel oder bestimmte Teile davon einfach immer wieder spielt, wie\n\nSpeaker 2: wie\n\nSpeaker 0: schafft ihr das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir haben tatsächlich gar keine automatisierten Tests. Ich weiß, dass manche Leute das auch machen. Ich hab das noch nie gemacht automatisiert irgendwie 'n Spiel zu testen. Bei uns war es jetzt immer so, also bei dem kleinen Spiel haben wir es zu 'nem großen Teil tatsächlich selber getestet, wobei wir auch Outsourcing QA hatten, also eine tatsächlich eine Firma, die nichts anderes machen als den ganzen Tag das Spiel zu testen und dann die Bugs aufzuschreiben. Und jetzt ist es auch wieder so, dass wir jetzt da das Spiel relativ großes haben, wir entsprechend Tester, die das testen.\n\nAuch nicht nur eine Person, sondern mehrere, die dann eben immer wieder spielen und verschiedene Sachen ausprobieren. Da gibt's da eine große Liste an Testcases, was ausprobiert werden muss jedes Mal. Da stehen quasi alle Features drin, die ausprobiert werden müssen und dann kann abgehakt werden, funktioniert oder funktioniert nicht und hoffentlich ist alles grün, meistens nicht und dann werden einfach die Tickets gemacht und wir bearbeiten die dann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool. Warum kompliziert, wenn's auch einfach geht?\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie sehr habt ihr denn dann jetzt eine Deadline und wie gut und ab welchem Zeitpunkt kann man das einschätzen, ob das klappt oder nicht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also schwer auf jeden Fall einzuschätzen, deswegen werden Spiele ja auch ständig verschoben, weil man aber denkt, ja, das schaffe ich schon und dann merkt man, ach so, da gibt's noch dieses Problem und ah, wenn ich das jetzt mach, dann hat das noch diesen Einfluss auf dieses System, was einfach nicht abzusehen ist, deswegen baut man halt einfach super viel Puffer ein und hofft, dass es reicht und meistens reicht's halt nicht. Bei uns war es jetzt so, wir haben quasi das Spiel gepitcht und haben gesagt, wir brauchen achtzehn Monate, das war geraten. Wir haben gedacht, ja das wird schon ungefähr passen und haben quasi einen groben Plan aufgestellt, wann wir was machen, was würde Sinn ergeben. Also erst muss ich quasi den Tag Nacht Rhythmus bauen, damit ich bauen kann, dass dann die Pflanzen wachsen und so weiter Und haben gesagt, jo und dann sind wir einfach losgelaufen und haben mal geguckt. Es lief eigentlich bei uns jetzt ganz gut, also wir sind ganz gut halbwegs hingekommen, also wir haben jetzt zwei Monate verlängert, als wir ursprünglich geplant haben, was noch ganz okay ist, finde ich.\n\nIch hab auch schon in Projekten beteiligt, die haben sich dann verdoppelt oder so. Von daher hab ich ganz\n\nSpeaker 0: stolz Meine, glaub ich, alle schon. Irgendeiner Ahnung. Bin ich ganz stolz und denk zwei Monate ist eigentlich okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, denk zwei Monate ist eigentlich okay. Genau und ja absehbar, dass was nicht klappt. Unterschiedlich, ne. Manchmal läuft man, bis man fast am meisten ist und merkt dann, oh scheiße, hier fehlt noch ganz viel und das haben wir irgendwie übersehen. Manchmal kann man es auch schon voraussehen.\n\nAlso wir hatten zum Beispiel immer viele Probleme mit dem Writing, weil sich das immer verschoben hat und wir irgendwann gemerkt haben oh krass, das ist doch ganz schön viel mehr als wir dachten. Wir haben uns einfach verschätzt, weil wir einfach damit nicht so wahnsinnig viel Erfahrung hatten und dann irgendwann gesehen haben, ah okay, wenn wir jetzt erst so weit sind und wir müssten eigentlich in zwei Milestones dort sein, dann schaffen wir das nicht. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich würde zu 'nem ganz anderen Thema kommen, wenn Du dazu keine Frage mehr hast. Dennis guckt in den Raum.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich, da ich überleg grad noch son bisschen. Also ich mein, eine der der Stereobilder Development gibt und ja auch ein Grund, den Du genannt hast, den Du gerne anders machen würdest, ist eben ja irgendwie Crunch Time und Überstunden anders und irgendwie zu viel machen. Und da war grade mein Gedankengang noch son bisschen, ne, wo wo kommt das ursprünglich her? Sind das dann irgendwie einfach Kosten, Einsparungen oder Kalkulation, die ja letztendlich irgendwie auch darauf basieren, ne, den dann, dass das Game letztendlich auch teurer machen, wenn man länger braucht. Ja und wie ihr die möglichst entgeht, weil ich ihr habt den Eindruck, euch ist schon wichtig, das nicht so sehr zu haben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, so gut es eben geht, ne. Ich glaub also zu hundert Prozent vermeiden, dass man jemals Überstunden macht, ist glaub sehr schwer, keine Ahnung, ob das für jemand schafft, dann\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber das geht, glaub ich, in keiner Branche, oder? Das hat ja nicht mal was mit euch zu tun. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Genau, aber ja klar, also das Problem ist natürlich, ich hab jetzt hier irgendwie mal Publisher gesagt, ich mach das in achtzehn Monaten fertig und dann hab ich irgendwie 'n Release Date, wo wir sagen, ja da soll das fertig sein und das Geld reicht dann aber ja logischerweise auch nur bis dahin. Ja und und dann, was mache ich dann, ne? Also es muss ja irgendwie weitergehen, es muss irgendwie Einkommen reinkommen, sonst kann ich meine Miete nicht bezahlen. Das ist natürlich schlecht.\n\nGenau und ja, wir versuchen son bisschen Ich also ich glaube, dass der Hauptpunkt, den ich sehe, ist, dass man son bisschen manchmal auch die perfektionistische Ader son bisschen ablegen muss, wo man denkt, ja, sehr voll geil, wenn ich jetzt dieses Feature noch so bauen könnte. Aber ist es wirklich so, macht es wirklich das Spiel so viel besser? Muss es wirklich unbedingt sein oder könnte ich vielleicht hier auch eine Corner cutten, damit ich's trotzdem fertig kriege? Und ja genau. Also wie gesagt, ich will auch nicht sagen, dass wir gar keine Überschunden machen, weil das stimmt auch nicht.\n\nAlso im Dezember hatten wir zum Beispiel sone Zeit, wo wir wirklich tatsächlich prominenttem Writing hatten und die Lokalisation halt fertig sein musste, damit das Ganze übersetzt werden kann, wo es dann doch mal eng wurde, weil ja, ansonsten verschiebt sich halt alles, wenn die Low Carb nicht fertig ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Ja. Ich stell mal eine eine These auf und dann kannst Du mir sagen, ob ich falsch leg grad drin. Aber diese diese Crunch Time, die kommt ja wahrscheinlich öfter vom Publisher als von dem Studio, weil der also weil der Publisher ja wahrscheinlich mehr den Druck aufbaut als das Studio selbst beziehungsweise das Studio ja quasi nur indirekt dann, weil der Publisher eben den Druck macht. Der Publisher muss ja irgendwie auch den Druck machen, weil er ist ja für, ne, was haben wir gesagt, Marketing, Vertrieb, Distribution und so was alles verantwortlich.\n\nUnd da hängt er ja mit 'nem Fuß in der Welt, die ganz anders funktioniert als Softwareentwicklung. So, wenn Du große Marketingkampagnen schaltest mit Werbung vielleicht in in Print oder in anderen Medien zusammen, ja, die haben ja auch wiederum Deadlines und so was, ja. Also auch da ist ja der Publisher am Ende auch wieder 'n bisschen nur Getriebener von der Welt, in der er sich bewegt oder oder sie sich bewegen, so. Und deshalb lässt sich das vielleicht am Ende gar nicht zu hundert Prozent auflösen. Und je größer das Spiel ist und je größer der Werbeaufwand, der damit verbunden ist, desto enger sind die Deadlines, desto teilter ist das Budget und desto mehr Druck entsteht da quasi auch.\n\nAlso ist das natürlich 'n Problem, was sich mit der Größe des Spiels auch exponiert wahrscheinlich irgendwann. Und dann dann kommt man da halt auch einfach nicht mehr so einfach raus, ja. Und dann, also so meine Theorie, aber wie gesagt, ich bin ja auch nicht in dieser Brodo drin.\n\nSpeaker 2: Bestimmt. Also ich kann mir sehr gut vorstellen, dass es sich mit größeren Spielen auch vervielfacht, weil's da auch eben noch so viel schwieriger ist einzuschätzen, wie lange ich denn jetzt brauche, weil ich kann viel einfacher sehen, was was muss ich in den nächsten zwei Monaten machen, als was mach ich in achtzehn Monaten? Kann ich ja null einschätzen, wenn das Spiel fast fertig ist, wie lange dann Sachen dauern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Andererseits könnte ich dir auch sagen, wenn Du das zehnte Battlefield in Folge baust, dann sollst Du vielleicht auch langsam irgendwann verstanden haben, wie lange es braucht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Vielleicht. Ja, das stimmt. Das ist 'n ja guter Punkt. Boah Du, keine Ahnung. In Triple A bin ich gar nicht drin, weiß ich überhaupt gar nicht, wie das funktioniert.\n\nKann ich mir auch null vorstellen in Triple A zu arbeiten, muss ich ganz ehrlich sagen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das könnte ich glaub ich auch nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was macht für dich 'n erfolgreiches Spiel aus? Kannst Du das kannst Du das runterbrechen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Erfolgreiches Spiel. Boah das Also erfolgreich inwiefern, ne? Es gibt natürlich Spiele, die sind finanziell erfolgreich. Gibt auch Spiele, die sind erfolgreich und gewinnen viele Preise, weil sie irgendwie artistisch besonders wertvoll sind. Was wär für\n\nSpeaker 0: Was ist\n\nSpeaker 1: denn dein Ziel? Was fürn Spiel möchtest Du denn kreieren?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich würde gern was machen, was ich was irgendwie, also ja klar, sonen künstlerischen Anbruch hab ich schon auch, ich möchte was machen, wo ich denk, wo ich dann am Ende sagen kann, das ist ein schönes Spiel, da bin ich stolz drauf, was ich gemacht hab, so, es hat vielleicht auch irgendwie, bringt vielleicht Leute weiter oder zumindest macht es Leute glücklich, wenn sie's spielen oder sie denken vielleicht noch mal irgendwann drüber nach so, das ist schon so mein Anspruch und ich möchte natürlich auch gern meine Miete bezahlen. Also ich hätt schon auch gern finanziell Erfolg, weil ansonsten müsste ich das, dann wär das 'n Hobby, ne und aber es ist ja mein Beruf, also müsste schon irgendwie beides da sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Da würde ich noch mal reingrätschen, wo Du sagst, na ja, ansonsten wär's 'n Hobby. Ich würde nicht sagen, dass es 'n Hobby ist, nur weil's kein Geld verdient. Ich würde sagen, vielleicht ist es ja auch Kunst, so, ne. Also wenn ich mir Kunst da draußen so im Großen und Ganzen anguckt, dann kann man sich ja auch legitimerweise die Frage stellen, trägt sich das immer selbst oder lebt Kunst nicht auch davon, dass sie stellenweise einfach auch quersubventioniert wird, ja, so von anderer, also wie wie viel Kunst spielt sich da draußen ab, die nicht wirtschaftlich erfolgreich wäre, wenn sie nicht irgendwie andere Einkommen noch dazu hätte und dass Spieleentwicklung am Ende nicht auch eine Form von Kunst, so wie Film und Malerei auch eine Form von Kunst sein kann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, nee, Du hast recht, da muss ich da muss ich doch noch mal bisschen zurückrudern. Nee, stimme ich dir zu.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber trotzdem gibt's wahrscheinlich wenig Spiele, die künstlerisch erfolgreich sind, aber sich wirtschaftlich einfach überhaupt gar nicht tragen, weil's da wahrscheinlich einfach keine keine vergleichbaren Fördermechanismen für gibt, ne. Also wenn ich jetzt sagen würde, ich bin irgendwie renommierter Künstler so und häng halt irgendwie viel in in Museen rum oder so, dann hab ich son bisschen, kann kann ich son son Cashflow davon irgendwie machen noch, ja. Aber für Spiele gibt's ja das Äquivalent nicht. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Entschuldigung, ich muss nur über den Ausdruck, ich hänge muss nicht drum lachen, aber ja, ihr habt kurz gebraucht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, meine meine Werke werden halt ausgestellt, sondern dann dann lebe ich ja nicht davon, dass dass viele Leute mir direkt irgendwie Geld zuschustern, aber halt durch den durch den stellvertretenden Konsum meiner Kunst sozusagen kann ich dann irgendwie damit leben. Aber das das gibt's ja bei bei Spielen weiß ich nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also Du musst natürlich schon, wenn Du jetzt irgendwie Förderung willst, bei allermeisten Förderungen schreibst Du schon mit rein, wie Du das Spiel vermarkten willst und wie das Geld wieder reinbekommen willst, ne. Also Ja. Stimmt schon, aber es gibt natürlich auch irgendwie Serious Games, die es irgendwie, die die weniger marktorientiert sind, sag ich mal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie würdest Du denn insgesamt den Zustand der Spielebranche in Deutschland beschreiben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ja, ich Ich glaub, das sagt\n\nSpeaker 0: schon alles aus, wenn man das so\n\nSpeaker 2: steht. Also es gab natürlich irgendwie nach Corona gab's den Riesenboom ne oder während Corona. Alle alles wurde riesig groß, alle Firmen wurden gekauft und alle waren so ja, jetzt werden wir alle reich mit Spielen und Embracer sowieso und dann stellte sich irgendwann raus, ach so ups nach Corona ist doch nicht so, die Leute machen doch auch wieder andere Sachen und sitzen nicht nur drin und spielen. So und jetzt gerade wird halt links und rechts alles geschlossen oder verkauft und das sieht natürlich irgendwie nicht so super rosig aus und auch wenn ich jetzt mal so mich umhör bei anderen Entwickler*innen, die ich kenne. Funding zu kriegen ist gerade schwer, die Bundesförderung gibt's gerade nicht, die es mal gab, also wo wir tatsächlich einfach Spiele gefördert bekommen haben, einfach leer ist jetzt weg und jetzt ohne Haushalt gerade auch irgendwie schwierig, ich glaub jetzt ist sie wieder gestartet.\n\nBin mir grad gar nicht so ganz sicher. Aber es ist alles irgendwie schwierig und ja, die die Fördersituation grad nicht ganz so rosig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das beschreibt so die die wirtschaftliche Situation. Wie glaubst Du, steht es in Deutschland den Schritt davor, die Ausbildung vorne für Spieleentwicklerinnen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich würde sagen, das sieht gar nicht so schlecht aus. Ich glaube, es gibt viele gute Unis, wo man Spielentwicklung lernen kann und viele Leute, die die da auch rauskommen. Also wir kriegen viele Bewerbungen, obwohl wir halt gar keine Ausschreibungen machen. Also sind alles Initiativbewerbungen von Leuten, die wo ich sag, ja geil, also sieht gut aus, was Du machst, ich will halt niemanden einstellen, aber wenn ich wollte, dann ja, so. Also gibt viele viele gute Leute, die grade von den Unis kommen.\n\nAber die haben's halt schwer.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Also ja, die die haben's Wirtschaft, also die sind einfach grade so so ein Opfer ihrer Zeit, ja. Mhm. Aber was, meinst Du, wenn Du sagst, es gibt viele gute Leute, was was macht es aus und welchem Umstand haben wir das zu verdanken, dass es offensichtliche gute Ausbildungen in dem Bereich gibt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Welchen Umstand haben wir das zu verdanken? Boah, Du hast keine Ahnung, wie\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, dann anders rumpackt. Also wenn Du sagst, es es gibt viele coole Kandidaten, die halt von der Uni kommen, was zeichnet die denn für dich aus? Weil der Abschluss per se ist es ja nicht. Also was bringen die Leute mit, wo Du sagst, da die die die sind gut?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also was ich immer beeindruckend finde ist, wenn Leute, die jetzt irgendwie grade aus dem Studium kommen, eben schon 'n paar Spieleprojekte und 'n schönes Portfolio haben, wo ich sehe, ah, die haben schon was gemacht, die haben auch mit Leuten zusammengearbeitet, da würde ich müsste ich mir quasi keine Gedanken machen, sondern ich könnte die einfach mit ins Team holen und die wüssten, wie es wie das läuft so ne. Wir können im Team arbeiten und wissen generell, wie Unit funktioniert oder so. Ich könnte quasi direkt mit denen starten, ohne für mich jetzt irgendwie großartig Aufwand zu haben. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hast Du\n\nSpeaker 2: denn Ja\n\nSpeaker 1: und die\n\nSpeaker 2: Leute sind halt sind halt jetzt oft suchen ihren Job, ne, in der Games Branche und landen aber in anderen Branchen, was voll schade ist, weil die sind dann erst mal verloren für die Games Branche, obwohl sie dafür voll gut geeignet wären, aber die kommen wahrscheinlich auch nicht wieder, weil die arbeiten dann halt, keine Ahnung, beim Mercedes und verdienen Arsch voll Geld und damit kann halt die Games Branche nicht mithalten, denen irgendwann dieses Gehalt zu zahlen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Bist Du glücklich? Ja, kleine Frage.\n\nSpeaker 2: So generell oder mit meinem Job?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein, natürlich 'n bisschen auf das bezogen, was wir gesagt haben. Bist Du glücklich, dass Du das den Schritt gegangen bist, dein dein eigenes Studio mitzugründen? Guckst Du zuversichtlich in die Zukunft mit dem, was ihr da gerade macht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Auf jeden Fall. Also ich bin superfroh, dass wir das so gemacht haben. Ich würd's nicht anders machen, jetzt im Sinne von, also ich würd sicherlich irgendwie andere Entscheidungen treffen, aber ich würde generell würde ich das wieder so machen und eine Firma gründen. Das gefällt mir total gut und ich glaube, es wird auch gut in der Zukunft, also bei uns sieht's grad gut aus mit dem Spiel, das wir jetzt vorher veröffentlicht haben, das kleinere. Das läuft ziemlich gut, da gibt's dann noch Updates und die erzählst und so weiter und Leute finden das auch immer noch gut und kaufen das.\n\nDeswegen kannst Du auch noch bei uns 'n bisschen weitergehen und wir haben jetzt quasi die Chance dann danach noch ein, zwei Spiele zu machen, die hoffentlich dann auch laufen, ohne dass uns das Geld ausgeht und deswegen ist sehr positiv.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, hört sich gut an. Gut, wunderbar. Moderierst Du dich an? Die Fragerunden. Das ist noch deine Fragen.\n\nIst meine Frage. Ja, ich geborene die Fragen. Wir haben eine kleine Frage, einen kleinen Fragenkatalog, den Du die meisten Fragen mit entweder oder Du kannst ja nicht mit entweder oder\n\nSpeaker 0: beantworten haben. Bitte sag einfach oder jetzt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber es sind entweder oder Fragen und ein paar kurze Dinge noch zu dir.\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir machen ein bisschen die Stimmungsmusik. Danke. Vielleicht ein bisschen leiser, damit man uns noch hört. Und dann starten wir direkt rein. Und zwar, Hunde oder Katzen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Hunde.\n\nSpeaker 1: Tee oder Kaffee?\n\nSpeaker 2: Kaffee.\n\nSpeaker 1: Auto oder Fahrrad?\n\nSpeaker 2: Auto, mal E-Auto zumindest.\n\nSpeaker 0: Da bist Du hier nicht\n\nSpeaker 2: Fahrradfahren Fahrradfahren ist so schrecklich, hast Fahrradfahren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, hast Du auch Fahrradfahren?\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein, ich sag sie ist in der richtigen Runde mit E-Auto.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich weiß, das weiß ich auch. Wollte noch checken, ob das noch eine gleiche gemeinsame ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Alles gut.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, sehr gut. Mac oder Windows?\n\nSpeaker 0: Oder.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oder.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das geht nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich benutz beides tatsächlich, aber zum Arbeiten Windows.\n\nSpeaker 1: IOS oder Android?\n\nSpeaker 2: IOS.\n\nSpeaker 1: Büro oder remote?\n\nSpeaker 2: Remote.\n\nSpeaker 0: Haben wir, sorry ganz kurz in der Leitung, da haben wir gleich drüber gesprochen, dass Sie komplett remote arbeiten in der schönen Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, können wir ja jetzt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Können wir\n\nSpeaker 0: gleich gleich. Mach mach deine Runde fertig.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Frontend oder Backend? Gibt's eigentlich so in der Spiel immer Slogan? Du, ich lass einfach so\n\nSpeaker 0: Game Logik oder oder UI? Ja, stimmt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also das Ding ist halt tatsächlich, dass wir diese Begriffe so gar nicht verwenden. Von daher boah keine Ahnung.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, die darfst Du skippen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Die darf ich skippen, danke.\n\nSpeaker 1: Teamwork oder Individualist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Teamwork.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was war deine erste Programmiersprache?\n\nSpeaker 2: Die erste, die ich gelernt hab, war c.\n\nSpeaker 0: Boah, krasser Einstich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was war dein erster Computer? Das haben wir, glaub ich, nicht gesagt, nur dass Du irgendwann einen bekommen hast. Weißt Du das noch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, Keine Ahnung, was das für einer war. Windows irgendwas.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay. Gibt es eine Lieblingsapp, die Du hast? In Klammern, kein Spiel. Das ist die nächste Frage. Eine\n\nSpeaker 2: Lieblingsapp. Nee. Ich versuch mein Handy so wenig wie möglich zu verwenden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und ein Lieblingsspiel?\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, das\n\nSpeaker 1: ist jetzt spannend. Darf man das überhaupt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Mein Lieblingsspiel.\n\nSpeaker 0: Darf man jetzt sein nicht eigenes Spiel pitchen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist das\n\nSpeaker 0: dann so wie seine eigenen Kinder zu verraten?\n\nSpeaker 2: Mein eigenes Spiel ist auf jeden Fall nicht mein Lieblingsspiel. Ich ich kann die alle nicht mehr sehen, die ich entwickelt habe. Das ist ja furchtbar Ich hab die alle ja tausende Stunden gespielt. Also das ist selbstverständlich nicht mehr mein Lieblingsspiel. Nee, mein Lieblingsspiel ist Final Fantasy neunte\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, cool. Sehr gut. Okay, dann lass uns\n\nSpeaker 0: Noch kurz über remote sprechen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, lass uns noch kurz über remote sprechen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ich hab eben nur,\n\nSpeaker 1: weil Du hast irgendwie so mitbekommen, ihr seid umgezogen, keine Ahnung was und Du wohnst in nirgendwo, das hab ich zumindest mitbekommen, weil zweimal das Internet wegen Satelliteninternet ausgefallen ist. Das hört sich schon alles nach seremote an.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber ja nicht nur, es ist ja nicht nur so, dass, also wie ich das verstanden hab, Kathrin, ne, dass dass Du jetzt ganz weit weg bist und alle deine anderen Leute sitzen noch zusammen in einem Office, sondern ihr seid ja alle so remote, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also wir haben alle seit der Gründung von zu Hause gearbeitet, also auch davor schon, als wir alle noch angestellt waren, haben wir eigentlich auch größtenteils von zu Hause gearbeitet und das ist dann halt so geblieben und dann kann man sich auch die Bürokosten sparen und so und das war eigentlich gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Was was entgegnest Du Leuten, die behaupten, na ja, der größte Vorteil von diesem zusammen mit einem physischen Space zu arbeiten, ist es ja, dass es son Booster für ist es ja, dass es son Booster für Kreativität ist, wenn man im selben Raum ist und so. Und gerade in eurer Branche ja Kreativität doch superwichtig ist und ihr es ja offensichtlich auch schafft, ohne die gleichen Räumlichkeiten kreativ zu sein\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich meine, wenn das für Leute funktioniert, ist das doch super. Keine Ahnung, vielleicht gibt's Leute, bei denen das so ist. Ja, ich seh da jetzt, also klar ist auch schön, die zu sehen alle und zusammen was zu machen und ich find das auch voll wichtig, dass wir das ab und zu mal machen und uns mal sehen, aber ich muss es nicht jede Woche haben. Ich muss es auch nicht jeden Monat haben und ich, nee, also das schreckt meine Kreativität jetzt gar nicht ein, dass ich die Leute nicht persönlich sehe.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was sind dann so die Tools, die ihr so im im klassischen Arbeitsalltag benutzt, so zusammen zu kollaborieren?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir benutzen, wir wir schreiben viel alle unsere Sachen in Notion auf, also haben da irgendwie eine Dokumentation, 'n Gamedesign Dokument, wo alles reinkommt, wo wir unsere Ideen aufschreiben und dann schickt man das eben durch, sagt hier guck mal, das hab ich mir überlegt, wie findet ihr das? Dann schreiben alle ihre Kommentare rein oder schreiben was dazu. Genau, wir benutzen Slack und unterhalten uns darüber oder mieten uns. Also wir haben immer jeden Morgen unser Daily und besprechen da unsere Sachen über Discord. Ja, das sind, glaub ich, so die Sachen.\n\nAb und zu benutzen wir noch mal Miro, aber selten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Ja. Interessant. Cool. Interessant.\n\nWunderbar. Dann sind wir, glaub ich, durch. Ich hab keine Fragen mehr auf meiner Liste.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich auch nicht. Außer die obligatorische wärst Du gern noch was anderes gefragt worden Frage.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, ich fand's schön. War 'n schönes Gespräch. Schön, mit euch zu quatschen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mir\n\nSpeaker 0: auch. Mir ist grad doch noch eine letzte Frage eingefallen. Nein? Dennis Dennis, Aber ich ich schütte\n\nSpeaker 1: den Kopf, aber mach mal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein, Dennis Nick. Ja, okay, das war drauf. Wenn Du morgen nicht mehr in der Gamesbranche arbeiten dürftest, was würdest Du alternativ machen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich würde, glaube ich, was ich würd glaub eher was draußen machen. Ich ich würd ich würd vielleicht Cool, wie\n\nSpeaker 0: Du grade\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber ich würd glaub, ja ich glaub, ich würd eher vielleicht nichts mit Computern machen oder keine Ahnung, vielleicht würde ich, na ja, also das ist schwer zu sagen, was will ich machen, was kann ich, also ich glaube, was ich machen könnte, wäre vielleicht irgendwie was mit Social Media oder so, weil ich's in meinem Job jetzt auch viel mach, da könnte ich vielleicht irgendwas machen, aber ob ich das glücklich machen würde, würde ich mal bezweifeln, wenn ich nur noch das machen würde, deswegen würde ich glaub eher, keine Ahnung, Tier Tierpflege oder so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich kenn tatsächlich jemanden, der hat dieses ganze Computerzeug an Nagel gehängt und sich eine Schafherde zugelegt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Geil. Ja, könnt ich auch machen, könnt ich auch machen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sehr gut, cool. Dann hoffen wir aber trotzdem noch, dass Du der Gamesbranche lange erhalten bleibst und also mal mindestens so lange, bis dieses Spiel fertig ist, weil da freu ich mich jetzt schon drauf.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das das schaffen wir grad noch. Es ist nicht mehr Wein.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wollt grad sagen. Das ist das.\n\nSpeaker 0: Berühmte letzte Woche im Podcast. Das ist so gut wie fertig. Wunderbar. Dann Katrin, danke für die Zeit, danke für das Gespräch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke euch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Danke Dennis und dann bleibt uns nichts mehr zu sagen, außer wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik und Feedback habt, immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder wie Katrin grade gesagt hat, immer gerne auf Social Media. Da sind wir auch viel unterwegs und ihr wisst, wo ihr uns finden könnt. Und ansonsten hören wir uns dann hier bald wieder. Tschau, tschau und bis zum nächsten Mal.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vielen Dank Katrin.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke euch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Tschau, macht's gut.",[32066,32073,32080,32087,32094,32101,32108,32111,32124,32133,32142,32149,32158,32165,32169,32181,32186,32189,32195,32202,32213,32224,32233,32244,32251,32257,32262,32274,32280,32292,32299,32312,32319,32332,32339,32350,32354,32363,32376,32380,32387,32393,32399,32403,32411,32424,32428,32431,32438,32444,32451,32455,32461,32465,32469,32479,32482,32490,32495,32499,32511,32516,32520,32525,32532,32541,32545,32549,32556,32566,32573,32582,32586,32591,32604,32610,32614,32619,32623,32627,32634,32637,32642,32647,32657,32664,32668,32675,32688,32693,32701,32704,32710,32716,32725,32736,32740,32744,32748,32755,32762,32766,32769,32773,32778,32782,32786,32790,32794,32805,32815,32820,32824,32827,32832,32835,32843,32856,32865,32874,32883,32887,32897,32901,32909,32913,32920,32924,32933,32937,32944,32948,32959,32966,32970,32979,32988,33001,33005,33018,33022,33030,33034,33038,33044,33055,33059,33071,33075,33081,33091,33102,33114,33126,33135,33139,33147,33154,33165,33174,33186,33194,33206,33210,33215,33221,33228,33231,33244,33253,33265,33278,33287,33294,33297,33301,33314,33323,33328,33332,33345,33351,33359,33371,33378,33381,33387,33400,33406,33413,33425,33437,33441,33451,33464,33472,33480,33484,33495,33499,33503,33509,33522,33526,33532,33538,33550,33556,33566,33570,33576,33584,33588,33592,33596,33607,33613,33620,33632,33636,33644,33650,33660,33670,33674,33678,33682,33687,33694,33698,33706,33718,33723,33735,33743,33749,33753,33756,33767,33770,33774,33777,33781,33785,33789,33793,33797,33801,33808,33812,33818,33821,33824,33828,33832,33836,33839,33843,33846,33851,33855,33859,33865,33874,33880,33886,33890,33894,33898,33901,33905,33909,33913,33921,33927,33937,33943,33947,33951,33957,33961,33965,33969,33973,33985,33992,33996,34000,34005,34011,34015,34019,34026,34036,34040,34053,34057,34064,34071,34077,34085,34088,34091,34099,34103,34111,34117,34121,34126,34130,34135,34142,34148,34154,34163,34167,34177,34181,34184],{"sentences":32067,"speaker":149,"num_words":32072,"start":146,"end":364},[32068,32070],{"text":32069,"start":146,"end":317},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen bei einer neuen programmierbar Podcastfolge, heute wieder in einem CTO Special und ich muss sagen, Dennis, ich stolper jedes Mal über diesen Namen CTO Special, weil wir hatten jetzt schon so oft Gäste hier, die irgendwie so formell gar keinen CTO sind.",{"text":32071,"start":317,"end":364},"Ich glaub, wir brauchen mal 'n anderes, wie auch immer dafür.",57,{"sentences":32074,"speaker":128,"num_words":32079,"start":364,"end":461},[32075,32077],{"text":32076,"start":364,"end":406},"Aber ist CTO nicht auch son bisschen einen Synonym da draußen?",{"text":32078,"start":406,"end":461},"Es fühlen sich, glaub ich, auch viele Leute von CTO angesprochen, gar nicht das offizielle.",26,{"sentences":32081,"speaker":149,"num_words":32086,"start":466,"end":567},[32082,32084],{"text":32083,"start":466,"end":508},"Okay, also herzlich willkommen beim gefühlten CTO Special in der Programmier war.",{"text":32085,"start":513,"end":567},"Unser heutiger Gast Katrin Rake, weiß gar nicht, Katrin, würdest Du dich als CTO fühlen?",27,{"sentences":32088,"speaker":575,"num_words":32093,"start":572,"end":682},[32089,32091],{"text":32090,"start":572,"end":600},"Hi, erst mal vielen Dank für die Einladung.",{"text":32092,"start":603,"end":682},"Ich hatte das genau dieses Thema grade mit meinem Mitgründer besprochen und wir waren so, weiß ich jetzt auch nicht, ob ich das so sagen würde.",34,{"sentences":32095,"speaker":128,"num_words":32100,"start":687,"end":798},[32096,32098],{"text":32097,"start":687,"end":722},"Ja, aber ist halt eine spannende Fragestellung für später, so.",{"text":32099,"start":727,"end":798},"Was was vielleicht das dich zögern lässt zu sagen, ja, es ist, ich kann die CDU nennen, finden wir vielleicht raus.",31,{"sentences":32102,"speaker":149,"num_words":32107,"start":798,"end":947},[32103,32105],{"text":32104,"start":798,"end":838},"Unabhängig davon, was Katrin zögern lässt, ob sie sich CTO nennt oder nicht.",{"text":32106,"start":838,"end":947},"Was uns dazu gebracht hat, sie trotzdem einzuladen, war, dass Katrin vor einiger sehr langer Zeit, ich glaub, es war der letzte Sommer oder nee, das letzte Frühjahr sogar schon, ne, ne,",45,{"sentences":32109,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":947,"end":951},[32110],{"text":165,"start":947,"end":951},{"sentences":32112,"speaker":149,"num_words":32123,"start":951,"end":1313},[32113,32115,32117,32119,32121],{"text":32114,"start":951,"end":1073},"uns hier in Bad Nauheim zu Gast war als Teil des FEMDEVs Meetups und son bisschen darüber gesprochen hat, wie sie ihr eigenes Spielestudio Spy Garden Games gegründet hat und son bisschen ihre Geschichte erzählt hat.",{"text":32116,"start":1073,"end":1137},"Ich dachte, boah, das ist ja voll toll und voll schade, dass nur irgendwie dreißig Leute hier sind und das jetzt hören.",{"text":32118,"start":1140,"end":1186},"Und dann machen wir son bisschen Reichweitenboost und nehmen mal sone kurze Podcastfolge dazu auf.",{"text":32120,"start":1186,"end":1292},"Kurz in Anführungszeichen, das ist der Moment, wo alle da draußen auf ihrem Podcastplayer gucken und merken, oh mein Gott, das sind doch fünfundneunzig Minuten, bis es zu Ende ist oder so.",{"text":32122,"start":1295,"end":1313},"Mal genau diese Geschichte son bisschen zu beleuchten.",113,{"sentences":32125,"speaker":149,"num_words":32132,"start":1313,"end":1615},[32126,32128,32130],{"text":32127,"start":1313,"end":1397},"Wir haben ja ganz oft CTOs, Gründer, CPOs, was auch immer das hier, die mehr von so Software b two b Seite irgendwie kommen.",{"text":32129,"start":1397,"end":1548},"Und ich fand's super cool, mal jemanden zu haben, der wirklich von soner Consumer Faceing Spielseite da drauf guckt, was, glaub ich, mehr Gemeinsamkeiten hat, als man denkt mit so Anwender Softwareentwicklungen, aber auch superviele interessante Unterschiede mitbringt und genau darüber wollen wir heute einmal sprechen.",{"text":32131,"start":1551,"end":1615},"Aber die allererste Frage ist dann natürlich immer, Katrin, wie bist Du in diesen Zaubertrank gefallen und was hat dich zu Computern gebracht?",93,{"sentences":32134,"speaker":575,"num_words":32141,"start":1618,"end":1862},[32135,32137,32139],{"text":32136,"start":1618,"end":1649},"Zu Computern gebracht, also das war, glaube ich, mein Papa.",{"text":32138,"start":1653,"end":1743},"Das war irgendwie son Thema, was ich schon immer voll spannend fand, also irgendwie am Computer dann ganz früher mit Paint drum malen und so, fand ich immer voll faszinierend.",{"text":32140,"start":1743,"end":1862},"Dann hab ich irgendwann mal 'n ersten Game Boy bekommen, da war ich neun, glaube ich und meine Mama sagt, seitdem hab ich nichts anderes mehr gemacht als Game Boy spielen und so ist es dann auch geblieben.",78,{"sentences":32143,"speaker":128,"num_words":32148,"start":1865,"end":1939},[32144,32146],{"text":32145,"start":1865,"end":1906},"Und hast Du dann auch irgendwann schon einen Computer oder das ist eher immer oder immer?",{"text":32147,"start":1906,"end":1939},"Ist es erst mal dieser Spielkonsolen Zugang gewesen?",24,{"sentences":32150,"speaker":575,"num_words":32157,"start":1943,"end":2107},[32151,32153,32155],{"text":32152,"start":1943,"end":1965},"Wir haben dann irgendwann auch 'n Computer gehabt, ja.",{"text":32154,"start":1965,"end":2017},"Da hab ich dann, da waren dann so Sachen wie die Löwenzahnspiele und so, der große Hit.",{"text":32156,"start":2017,"end":2107},"Also da war ich vielleicht so, ja keine Ahnung, sechs, sieben, acht sowas den Dreh, als wir dann unseren ersten Computer hatten, noch ohne Internet und alles, ja.",54,{"sentences":32159,"speaker":128,"num_words":32164,"start":2110,"end":2170},[32160,32162],{"text":32161,"start":2110,"end":2116},"Sehr gut.",{"text":32163,"start":2116,"end":2170},"Und hat dein Papa einfach nur 'n technisches Interesse oder hat er was in der Richtung gemacht?",19,{"sentences":32166,"speaker":575,"num_words":32148,"start":2174,"end":2245},[32167],{"text":32168,"start":2174,"end":2245},"Mein Papa war Radio- und Fernsehtechniker, also quasi auf jeden Fall auch im technischen Bereich immer gewesen, immer viel mit dem Computer gemacht, ja.",{"sentences":32170,"speaker":149,"num_words":32180,"start":2247,"end":2619},[32171,32173,32174,32176,32178],{"text":32172,"start":2247,"end":2382},"Das ist ja auch son Punkt, den wir schon 'n paarmal jetzt hier in den Biografien hatten, ne, dass Eltern das so mitbringen, aber quasi formell auch gar nichts damit zu tun hatten, aber weil sie natürlich auch aus soner Zeit kommen, wo es das formell für sie auch gar nicht so gab.",{"text":2389,"start":2382,"end":2387},{"text":32175,"start":2387,"end":2464},"So, also meine Eltern kommen ja auch aus 'ner Zeit, wo niemand oder die allerwenigsten Leute Informatik oder so was studiert hatten oder oder Softwareentwicklung oder so was.",{"text":32177,"start":2464,"end":2520},"Das gab's halt irgendwie so in den in den Sechzigern noch nicht, ohne mich jetzt hier zu sehr zu daten, ja.",{"text":32179,"start":2523,"end":2619},"Aber das das das halt interessant, dass es trotzdem ja diesen diesen Typ Mensch schon gab, der so für Technik und für Computer und Maschinen irgendwie interessiert und das dann an seine Kinder weitergibt.",137,{"sentences":32182,"speaker":149,"num_words":32185,"start":2619,"end":2639},[32183],{"text":32184,"start":2619,"end":2639},"Und deshalb sitzen wir alle heute hier.",7,{"sentences":32187,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":2642,"end":2643},[32188],{"text":1656,"start":2642,"end":2643},{"sentences":32190,"speaker":128,"num_words":32194,"start":2643,"end":2672},[32191,32192],{"text":2650,"start":2643,"end":2647},{"text":32193,"start":2647,"end":2672},"Aber bei mir hat's sogar eine Generation übersprungen.",9,{"sentences":32196,"speaker":149,"num_words":32194,"start":2676,"end":2708},[32197,32199,32200,32201],{"text":32198,"start":2676,"end":2694},"Hat dein Opa dir Computer beigebracht?",{"text":2700,"start":2697,"end":2698},{"text":2704,"start":2698,"end":2702},{"text":2709,"start":2707,"end":2708},{"sentences":32203,"speaker":128,"num_words":32212,"start":2711,"end":2941},[32204,32206,32208,32210],{"text":32205,"start":2711,"end":2833},"Ja, der war immer technisch super superaffin und hat bis, ich weiß nicht, als der, ist über neunzig geworden, aber auch in seinen Mitte Achtzigern hatte er dann Tablet und Smartphone und ist damit drangeblieben und hat auch Sachen vorher Geil.",{"text":32207,"start":2838,"end":2864},"Versucht, sich beizubringen und Programmiersprachen zu lernen und so.",{"text":32209,"start":2864,"end":2908},"Und der hat den den ersten Commodore vierundsechzig, den wir damals hatten, der war von ihm.",{"text":32211,"start":2908,"end":2941},"Der hat er so das Abgabeprodukt von ihm, ja,",75,{"sentences":32214,"speaker":149,"num_words":32223,"start":2941,"end":3149},[32215,32216,32218,32220,32221],{"text":2948,"start":2941,"end":2945},{"text":32217,"start":2945,"end":3063},"Das hoffe ich ja so für uns auch son bisschen, ne, dass wir nicht in dieses in diese Situation kommen, wo Technik uns irgendwann überholt und wir uns nichts mehr trauen, die Sachen irgendwie anzupassen, die die coolen Kids heute irgendwie als Spielzeug benutzen so.",{"text":32219,"start":3066,"end":3138},"Dass wir auch mit neunzig noch da sitzen und oh, dieses iPad zweihundertsiebenunddreißig, das ist ja so toll oder so schlecht oder keine Ahnung was und so.",{"text":2700,"start":3138,"end":3141},{"text":32222,"start":3141,"end":3149},"Bin, bin",76,{"sentences":32225,"speaker":575,"num_words":32232,"start":3149,"end":3310},[32226,32228,32230],{"text":32227,"start":3149,"end":3173},"ja auch Geht aber schnell, oder?",{"text":32229,"start":3173,"end":3216},"Also ich weiß nicht, ob ich ich glaub, der neueste Scheiß ist jetzt Snapchat wieder.",{"text":32231,"start":3216,"end":3310},"Das ist auch an mir vorbei gegangen und dann denke ich mir manchmal auch okay jetzt Jen Z ist doch dann manchmal weiter weg, als man denkt, hab ich das Gefühl?",52,{"sentences":32234,"speaker":128,"num_words":32072,"start":3314,"end":3490},[32235,32237,32238,32240,32242],{"text":32236,"start":3314,"end":3368},"Hey, ich schreib mir mal die auf die Fahne, dass ich durch TikTok noch so wahnsinnig jung geblieben bin.",{"text":2700,"start":3371,"end":3372},{"text":32239,"start":3376,"end":3401},"Zumindest da son paar Trends und so was kenne.",{"text":32241,"start":3401,"end":3481},"Also es gibt zumindest 'n paar Worte, die meinem Sohn unangenehm sind, wenn ich sie nenne und sage, woher weißt Du, woher kennst Du das Wort?",{"text":32243,"start":3485,"end":3490},"Moment, das",{"sentences":32245,"speaker":149,"num_words":32250,"start":3490,"end":3589},[32246,32248],{"text":32247,"start":3490,"end":3520},"es gibt Worte, die deinem Sohn unangenehm sind, wenn Du sie sagst.",{"text":32249,"start":3524,"end":3589},"Ja, ich Okay, nur nur, das musst Du für alle da draußen natürlich auch sagen, wie alt dein Sohn ist, dann wird's nämlich noch lustiger.",37,{"sentences":32252,"speaker":128,"num_words":32256,"start":3593,"end":3603},[32253,32254],{"text":3597,"start":3593,"end":3594},{"text":32255,"start":3594,"end":3603},"Der ist sieben.",4,{"sentences":32258,"speaker":149,"num_words":32194,"start":3603,"end":3632},[32259,32260],{"text":2700,"start":3603,"end":3607},{"text":32261,"start":3611,"end":3632},"Du hast jetzt schon peinlich vor deinem Sohn.",{"sentences":32263,"speaker":128,"num_words":32273,"start":3635,"end":3797},[32264,32266,32267,32269,32271],{"text":32265,"start":3635,"end":3662},"Ja, das kriegt man, glaub ich, sehr früh hin.",{"text":2389,"start":3666,"end":3667},{"text":32268,"start":3669,"end":3706},"Aber er sich zumindest wundert, weil ich gefragt habe, kennst Du das und das?",{"text":32270,"start":3706,"end":3756},"Weil ich ja auch nicht weiß, was, ne, was dann deren jetzt Sprache und so was schon ist.",{"text":32272,"start":3760,"end":3797},"Und da hatt ich zumindest den Da kann ich noch einigermaßen mithalten aktuell.",55,{"sentences":32275,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":3800,"end":3810},[32276,32278],{"text":32277,"start":3800,"end":3805},"Okay, krass.",{"text":2700,"start":3809,"end":3810},3,{"sentences":32281,"speaker":149,"num_words":32291,"start":3813,"end":3876},[32282,32283,32285,32287,32289],{"text":3817,"start":3813,"end":3814},{"text":32284,"start":3820,"end":3828},"Zurück zum Thema.",{"text":32286,"start":3832,"end":3844},"Ganz, ganz, Entschuldigung.",{"text":32288,"start":3849,"end":3860},"Nein, alles, alles gut.",{"text":32290,"start":3860,"end":3876},"Ganz, ganz zweite Kurve geschlagen.",16,{"sentences":32293,"speaker":149,"num_words":32298,"start":3879,"end":4033},[32294,32296],{"text":32295,"start":3879,"end":3916},"Okay, das war so dein dein ersten Kontakt mit mit Computern und Spielen auch.",{"text":32297,"start":3919,"end":4033},"Weißt Du noch oder kannst dich noch an den Moment in deinem Leben erinnern, wo Du das erste Mal gedacht hast, okay, das das ist 'n Beruf, da kann man eine Karrieretaus machen und das das ist was, für was ich mich auch interessiere?",58,{"sentences":32300,"speaker":575,"num_words":32311,"start":4038,"end":4482},[32301,32303,32305,32307,32309],{"text":32302,"start":4038,"end":4077},"Relativ spät, weil mir nicht bewusst war, dass man Videospiele als Job machen kann.",{"text":32304,"start":4077,"end":4100},"Also irgendwie hab ich da gar nicht drüber nachgedacht.",{"text":32306,"start":4100,"end":4284},"Das war für mich so weit weg, dass ich also erstens ich rüber nicht wirklich drüber nachgedacht hab, dass da ja jemand sein muss, der das macht und wenn das jemand macht, dann auf jeden Fall nicht in Deutschland, sondern ne in USA vielleicht oder Japan, wie jetzt keine Ahnung Pokémon oder so, war das war das erste Spiel, was ich auf meinem eigenen Game Boy hatte.",{"text":32308,"start":4284,"end":4309},"Da war mir klar, das kommt nicht aus Deutschland.",{"text":32310,"start":4314,"end":4482},"Deswegen war das ganz lange gar nicht auf meinem Schirm und dann, also ich erinnere mich, dass ich bevor ich angefangen hab zu studieren, habe ich gesehen, dass es in Berlin den Game Design Studiengang gibt und hab da kurz mit geliebäugelt, aber das war mir auch irgendwie das ja wirkte für mich zu weit weg wie irgendwie eine Traumerei so.",160,{"sentences":32313,"speaker":575,"num_words":32318,"start":4484,"end":4771},[32314,32316],{"text":32315,"start":4484,"end":4604},"Und dann habe ich angefangen Medieninformatik beziehungsweise mobile Medien zu studieren in Stuttgart und dort gab es Vorlesungen zum Thema Videospiele und die habe ich erst mal belegt, weil ich dachte Videospiele finde ich cool und ich mach die mal so aus Spaß.",{"text":32317,"start":4608,"end":4771},"Gar nicht so wirklich mit dem Hintergedanken, ich mach das dann später als Job, sondern einfach, weil ich muss ja meine ECD erst voll kriegen und dann gehe ich dahin, weil ich's halt interessant finde und dann so irgendwann, ein, zwei Semester später, kam mir dann so der Gedanke, ach so, vielleicht könnte ich ja das tatsächlich mal machen, ja.",103,{"sentences":32320,"speaker":149,"num_words":32331,"start":4773,"end":5069},[32321,32323,32325,32327,32329],{"text":32322,"start":4773,"end":4810},"Jetzt ist ja unter Leuten, die Informatik studieren, Spieleentwicklung immer son bisschen zweischneidig.",{"text":32324,"start":4814,"end":4866},"Auf der einen Seite ist das das, was superviele Leute zum Computer gebracht hat und so dieses Grundinteresse geweckt hat, ja.",{"text":32326,"start":4869,"end":5009},"Auf der anderen Seite haben ja Leute auch immer son bisschen Angst davor oder vielmals Angst davor, dass es sone brotlose Kunst ist, auch insbesondere in Deutschland, ja, weil ja jetzt ja ja nicht die großen Publisher sitzen, also obwohl die auch hier sitzen, aber daran denken halt die allermeisten irgendwie nicht, ne.",{"text":32328,"start":5009,"end":5053},"Und da denken sie so, okay, was was mach ich denn dann, wenn ich so was studiert hab.",{"text":32330,"start":5057,"end":5069},"Wie wie war das bei dir?",111,{"sentences":32333,"speaker":149,"num_words":32338,"start":5069,"end":5191},[32334,32336],{"text":32335,"start":5069,"end":5121},"Also das das war der Moment, wo man gesagt hat, okay, man kann das hier lernen, man kann das ja auch machen.",{"text":32337,"start":5126,"end":5191},"Wann war aber dieser Moment, wo Du hast, okay, das hat tatsächlich auch Hand und Fuß und ist mehr als nur planke Theorie und 'n Studiengang?",48,{"sentences":32340,"speaker":575,"num_words":32349,"start":5196,"end":5463},[32341,32343,32345,32347],{"text":32342,"start":5196,"end":5202},"Gute Frage.",{"text":32344,"start":5202,"end":5359},"Also ich hab dann irgendwann noch mal ein bisschen weiter recherchiert und dann auch gesehen, dass es eben Studios auch in Deutschland gibt und dann auch teilweise getroffen irgendwie auf Events mal und ich glaub das war dann irgendwann so der Moment, wo ich dann tatsächlich Leute getroffen hab, die in diesem Beruf arbeiten, wo ich gedacht hab, ach so.",{"text":32346,"start":5362,"end":5417},"Ja gut, die verdienen da offensichtlich Geld mit und können ihre Miete bezahlen, also muss das wohl irgendwie gehen.",{"text":32348,"start":5421,"end":5463},"Ja, ich ja, ich glaub dadurch kam das, einfach Leute treffen und sehen, dass es geht, ja.",98,{"sentences":32351,"speaker":149,"num_words":32148,"start":5466,"end":5531},[32352],{"text":32353,"start":5466,"end":5531},"Und dann warst Du irgendwann mit deinem Studium fertig, so und wie hast Du den den Fuß in die Tür in dieser Branche gekriegt?",{"sentences":32355,"speaker":575,"num_words":32362,"start":5534,"end":5989},[32356,32358,32360],{"text":32357,"start":5534,"end":5889},"Ich hab damals, als ich noch im Studium war, habe ich Leute getroffen von 'nem Game Studio auf 'nem Event auf so 'nem Studievent, die da waren und mit denen gequatscht, die eben 'n Studio hatten und dann warst Du ja vielleicht kann man ja mal 'n Praktikum machen, mal gucken und hab mich dann dort beworben für 'n Praktikum, dann als ich mein Praxissemester hatte, das war im fünfte Semester, glaube ich und hat das Glück gehabt, dass ich dann da genommen wurde und konnte dann Praktikum machen und dann habe ich weiter studiert und meinen Bachelor gemacht und dann irgendwann während ich meine Bachelorarbeit geschrieben hab 'n Anruf bekommen, ob ich bitte wiederkommen kann, weil gerade deren Programmierer gekündigt hatte und sich schnell jemand neuen brauchten.",{"text":32359,"start":5893,"end":5977},"Und es hat bei mir natürlich super reingepasst, weil ich halt ja grade dann am gucken war, was wie's da weitergeht und bin dann einfach direkt dort angefangen direkt nachm Studium.",{"text":32361,"start":5981,"end":5989},"Ja, Glück gehabt.",162,{"sentences":32364,"speaker":149,"num_words":32375,"start":5992,"end":6283},[32365,32367,32369,32371,32373],{"text":32366,"start":5992,"end":6022},"Wie muss man sich das Leben als Jobeinsteiger in der Spieleentwicklung vorstellen?",{"text":32368,"start":6022,"end":6072},"Ich hab ja, also von uns allen dreien hier in dieser Runde hab ich am allerwenigsten mit Spieleentwicklung zu tun.",{"text":32370,"start":6072,"end":6134},"Ich arbeite zwar auch hier bei Lotum und hier fallen regelmäßig neue Spiele raus, aber ich hab damit nichts zu tun so, ja.",{"text":32372,"start":6134,"end":6164},"Das machen andere Leute, die es damit mehr und besser auskennen.",{"text":32374,"start":6164,"end":6283},"Und wenn wir hier sonst mit Entwicklern sprechen, sind das Ganze oft so Webenwicklern und ich fang dann irgendwie mal an, sone kleine Webseite zu machen oder son Widget als ersten Job in irgendwie 'nem bestehenden Projekt rein oder so was.",107,{"sentences":32377,"speaker":149,"num_words":32185,"start":6285,"end":6301},[32378],{"text":32379,"start":6285,"end":6301},"Wie ist der Einstieg für dich gewesen?",{"sentences":32381,"speaker":575,"num_words":32386,"start":6303,"end":6554},[32382,32384],{"text":32383,"start":6303,"end":6323},"Das Studio, wo ich angefangen hab, war relativ klein.",{"text":32385,"start":6323,"end":6554},"Also als ich da angefangen hab, waren das glaube ich so boah, vielleicht so zehn Leute oder so und das fand ich ziemlich cool, weil das bedeutete halt, dass ich quasi direkt an allen Stellen auch mit reinschauen konnte und an vielen Stellen irgendwie mit eingebunden war und das war nicht so, dass ich irgendwie nur so ganz am Rande 'n bisschen Features bauen durfte, die irgendwie dann am Ende niemand so wirklich sieht, sondern da war's tatsächlich irgendwie von Anfang an so, wir bauen jetzt dieses Feature, mach mal.",99,{"sentences":32388,"speaker":149,"num_words":205,"start":6557,"end":6594},[32389,32391],{"text":32390,"start":6557,"end":6584},"Was war das erste Spiel, an dem Du da mitgespielt hast?",{"text":32392,"start":6588,"end":6594},"Was ging's da?",{"sentences":32394,"speaker":575,"num_words":32232,"start":6598,"end":6741},[32395,32397],{"text":32396,"start":6598,"end":6644},"Ich muss mal kurz überlegen, also ich glaube, das erste boah, was war das denn da noch mal?",{"text":32398,"start":6647,"end":6741},"Also in meinem Praktikum, das erste, was ich glaube ich gemacht hab, war eine App für Kinder, wo man aus so verschiedenen Characterne Oper zusammenbauen kann, die dann da gesungen haben und animiert wurden.",{"sentences":32400,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":6744,"end":6749},[32401],{"text":32402,"start":6744,"end":6749},"Sehr cool.",{"sentences":32404,"speaker":575,"num_words":32273,"start":6749,"end":6907},[32405,32407,32409],{"text":32406,"start":6749,"end":6760},"Das war ganz witzig.",{"text":32408,"start":6763,"end":6844},"Genau und als ich dann angefangen hab dort Vollzeit zu arbeiten, haben wir 'n Port gemacht von dem Spiel The InnerWorld, ist son Point and Click Adventure.",{"text":32410,"start":6847,"end":6907},"Das war quasi schon fertig und wir haben davon dann, als ich gerade angefangen hab, noch die, ich glaub, Xbox- und Playstation Version gemacht.",{"sentences":32412,"speaker":128,"num_words":32423,"start":6910,"end":7173},[32413,32415,32417,32419,32421],{"text":32414,"start":6910,"end":6961},"Oh, aber das heißt, es war schon technologisch, habt ihr mit oder mit 'nem anderen großen oder was?",{"text":32416,"start":6964,"end":6979},"Also wie Also Keine Ahnung.",{"text":32418,"start":6979,"end":7007},"Jan hat grade gesagt, Lotum, ja, wir machen auch Spiele.",{"text":32420,"start":7011,"end":7139},"Ich würde aber sagen, ich wir sind trotzdem irgendwo relativ weit weg davon, weil wir jetzt nicht mit 'ner Game Engine arbeiten und nicht mehr was mit drei D gemacht haben und von daher irgendwie schon sehr nah an der nativen App Entwicklung oder auch an der Webentwicklung dran sind.",{"text":32422,"start":7141,"end":7173},"Das Studio da war aber schon klassischer, was man unter Gaming versteht.",95,{"sentences":32425,"speaker":575,"num_words":383,"start":7176,"end":7248},[32426],{"text":32427,"start":7176,"end":7248},"Genau, also als ich mein Praktikum gemacht hab, da war es Flash und das erste den ersten Port, den wir da gemacht haben, als ich dann da Unity",{"sentences":32429,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":7251,"end":7252},[32430],{"text":3817,"start":7251,"end":7252},{"sentences":32432,"speaker":575,"num_words":32437,"start":7256,"end":7280},[32433,32435],{"text":32434,"start":7256,"end":7265},"Zu portieren, genau.",{"text":32436,"start":7265,"end":7280},"Und danach danach Unity dann.",8,{"sentences":32439,"speaker":149,"num_words":32443,"start":7283,"end":7312},[32440,32441],{"text":2700,"start":7283,"end":7284},{"text":32442,"start":7284,"end":7312},"Flash muss man vielleicht auch für die Jüngeren da draußen erklären.",12,{"sentences":32445,"speaker":128,"num_words":32450,"start":7316,"end":7346},[32446,32448],{"text":32447,"start":7316,"end":7326},"Ach, weiß ich nicht.",{"text":32449,"start":7329,"end":7346},"Weiß ich nicht, man kriegt das noch",11,{"sentences":32452,"speaker":575,"num_words":32256,"start":7348,"end":7358},[32453],{"text":32454,"start":7348,"end":7358},"Ist jetzt vorbei, also.",{"sentences":32456,"speaker":128,"num_words":32443,"start":7362,"end":7395},[32457,32459],{"text":32458,"start":7362,"end":7373},"Noch mal mit oder so.",{"text":32460,"start":7375,"end":7395},"Alles, was früher auch heute link hat.",{"sentences":32462,"speaker":149,"num_words":32256,"start":7398,"end":7411},[32463],{"text":32464,"start":7398,"end":7411},"Mit mit Flashmid, so.",{"sentences":32466,"speaker":128,"num_words":32437,"start":7413,"end":7439},[32467],{"text":32468,"start":7413,"end":7439},"Nee, gibt's nicht sone Historie, son Geschichtsunterricht in",{"sentences":32470,"speaker":149,"num_words":32478,"start":7441,"end":7505},[32471,32473,32475,32476,32477],{"text":32472,"start":7441,"end":7466},"'nem Studium, son älterer Ohr, vorne steht.",{"text":32474,"start":7466,"end":7492},"Früher hatten wir ja nichts, wir mussten mit Flash arbeiten.",{"text":7498,"start":7496,"end":7497},{"text":2700,"start":7500,"end":7501},{"text":3817,"start":7501,"end":7505},20,{"sentences":32480,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":7507,"end":7508},[32481],{"text":2389,"start":7507,"end":7508},{"sentences":32483,"speaker":128,"num_words":32273,"start":7511,"end":7653},[32484,32486,32488],{"text":32485,"start":7511,"end":7566},"Und da habt ihr an unterschiedlichen Spielen gearbeitet oder wie wie kann man da grundsätzlich sich den den den Ablauf vorstellen?",{"text":32487,"start":7566,"end":7617},"Also gab es mehrere, die online waren und die mussten da waren oder gab's eine lange Phase dann eine Neuentwicklung?",{"text":32489,"start":7621,"end":7653},"Wo hast Du son bisschen da mit dran gewirkt und wie war das aufgestellt?",{"sentences":32491,"speaker":575,"num_words":32494,"start":7656,"end":7706},[32492],{"text":32493,"start":7656,"end":7706},"Ja, also als ich angestellt war, waren's hauptsächlich einfach Projekte, die wurden gemacht und dann waren die oft dann fertig, wurden",21,{"sentences":32496,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":7706,"end":7712},[32497],{"text":32498,"start":7706,"end":7712},"releast und",{"sentences":32500,"speaker":575,"num_words":32386,"start":7712,"end":7977},[32501,32503,32505,32507,32509],{"text":32502,"start":7712,"end":7724},"sind dann einfach fertig.",{"text":32504,"start":7724,"end":7761},"Da war dann, also bei den großen großen und sind dann einfach fertig.",{"text":32506,"start":7761,"end":7804},"Da war dann, also bei den großen Spielen war dann nicht mehr viel mit DLCs oder so.",{"text":32508,"start":7807,"end":7820},"Irgendwie andere Zeiten, glaube ich.",{"text":32510,"start":7823,"end":7977},"Kann man jetzt heutzutage nicht mehr so machen, glaube Oder na ja, kann man schon, aber genau und und halt Apps haben wir hab ich da gemacht und das war dann schon so, dass es da auch dann Updates gab und neuen neuen Content und so, dass da immer mal wieder was dazu kam und Bugfixes gemacht wurden und so.",{"sentences":32512,"speaker":575,"num_words":32515,"start":7977,"end":7990},[32513],{"text":32514,"start":7977,"end":7990},"Also von beidem ein bisschen.",5,{"sentences":32517,"speaker":149,"num_words":32291,"start":7993,"end":8030},[32518],{"text":32519,"start":7993,"end":8030},"Was waren denn so die die wichtigsten Skills, die Du aus diesem ersten Job mitgenommen hast?",{"sentences":32521,"speaker":575,"num_words":32524,"start":8032,"end":8341},[32522],{"text":32523,"start":8032,"end":8341},"Ja, ich glaub das Wichtigste, was ich da mitgenommen hab, waren zum einen einfach, wie man Spiele macht, also wie es technisch funktioniert wie die Engine funktioniert das alles son bisschen einmal mitzukriegen wie man halbwegs schönen Code schreibt der funktioniert obwohl man irgendwie unter Zeitdruck arbeitet das andere Leute da auch dran arbeiten können dass man auch zusammen gut arbeitet wie es im Team funktioniert ne wie man die Aufgaben aufteilt und eben auch son bisschen wie die Games Branche funktioniert, dass man ja nicht einmal 'n Spiel macht und das dann auf Steam releast und dann verkauft sich das, so funktioniert's halt nicht, sondern da zählt dann noch 'n bisschen mehr dazu irgendwie auch Marketing zu machen und so weiter.",122,{"sentences":32526,"speaker":149,"num_words":32531,"start":8344,"end":8523},[32527,32529],{"text":32528,"start":8344,"end":8451},"Das ist ja, glaub ich, son son großer Unterschied der Spieleentwicklung von anderer Softwareentwicklung unterscheidet, dass es eben jemanden gibt, der Spiele macht und dann gibt es da son Publisher, so, der auch irgendwie noch seine Hände mit dem Spiel hat.",{"text":32530,"start":8451,"end":8523},"Kannst Du einmal für alle da draußen so in dreißig Sekunden Elevator Pitch erklären, wie da diese Dynamik eigentlich ist und wer da was genau von macht?",68,{"sentences":32533,"speaker":575,"num_words":32540,"start":8527,"end":8929},[32534,32536,32538],{"text":32535,"start":8527,"end":8639},"Also das ist natürlich von Spiel zu Spiel auch immer noch mal 'n bisschen unterschiedlich, aber bei uns ist es jetzt Beispiel so, dass wir für unser aktuelles Spiel mit 'nem Publisher zusammenarbeitet, der zum einen das Spiel zu gutem großen Teil bezahlt.",{"text":32537,"start":8639,"end":8848},"Das muss nicht immer so sein, aber bei uns ist es jetzt zum Beispiel so und sich Sachen kümmert wie das Marketing, dass man in Events kommt, Sachen wie QA, also Quality Assurance, die Lokalisation organisiert und so weiter, also quasi alles drum rum, was sozusagen nicht Entwicklung selber ist und dazu haben wir dann eben diese Partner, damit wir uns da quasi weniger darum kümmern müssen, was jetzt nicht heißt, dass wir gar kein Marketing machen.",{"text":32539,"start":8848,"end":8929},"Also wir machen selber zum Beispiel auch unsere Social Media Kanäle und so weiter, aber es ist so ein bisschen aufgeteilt und nimmt so ein bisschen die Last, alles machen zu müssen.",152,{"sentences":32542,"speaker":128,"num_words":575,"start":8932,"end":8937},[32543,32544],{"text":2389,"start":8932,"end":8933},{"text":2389,"start":8936,"end":8937},{"sentences":32546,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":8939,"end":8944},[32547],{"text":32548,"start":8939,"end":8944},"Ja, Dennis.",{"sentences":32550,"speaker":128,"num_words":32555,"start":8948,"end":9085},[32551,32553],{"text":32552,"start":8948,"end":8993},"Und später bekommt man, ist es son einmal Ding oder ist man praktisch trotzdem noch beteiligt?",{"text":32554,"start":8997,"end":9085},"Also ist der bezahlt der Publisher einmal das Spiel und sagt so okay, ich nehm es jetzt ab und dann ist fertig oder hat man dann noch irgendwelche Royities oder sind das ist das auch immer unterschiedlich?",53,{"sentences":32557,"speaker":575,"num_words":32212,"start":9089,"end":9283},[32558,32560,32562,32564],{"text":32559,"start":9089,"end":9104},"Genau, also es kann auch unterschiedlich sein.",{"text":32561,"start":9104,"end":9163},"Ich es gibt soweit, ich weiß noch Publisher, die einfach auftragsmäßig was abgeben und Du dann keine Royities oder nur sehr wenig Royities kriegst.",{"text":32563,"start":9167,"end":9211},"Genau, bei uns ist jetzt zum Beispiel so, dass wir 'n Teil bekommen von von dem von den Verkäufen.",{"text":32565,"start":9215,"end":9283},"Genau und je nachdem, manchmal musst Du noch das reccoupen, was Du bekommen hast, manchmal nicht, manchmal nur 'n Teil, gibt's ganz unterschiedliche Varianten davon.",{"sentences":32567,"speaker":128,"num_words":32572,"start":9287,"end":9448},[32568,32570],{"text":32569,"start":9287,"end":9321},"Da sind jetzt, also ich würd da gern noch 'n bisschen mehr einsteigen.",{"text":32571,"start":9325,"end":9448},"Ich frag mich nur gerade, ob wir einmal noch, weil wir jetzt ja auch schon 'n bisschen darüber reden, was Du jetzt machst, ob wir einmal noch uns dem Lebenslauf weiterhangeln zudem, in welcher Rolle Du jetzt bist, bevor ich dann noch da mehr drüber frage.",59,{"sentences":32574,"speaker":149,"num_words":32581,"start":9451,"end":9537},[32575,32577,32579],{"text":32576,"start":9451,"end":9492},"Ja, also die die Einstiegsfrage dazu wär ja, jetzt hast Du quasi deinen ersten Job gemacht.",{"text":32578,"start":9495,"end":9527},"Wie lange hast Du das durchgehalten, bis Du dein eigenes Studio gemacht hast?",{"text":32580,"start":9530,"end":9537},"Und warum durchgehalten?",32,{"sentences":32583,"speaker":575,"num_words":32185,"start":9540,"end":9556},[32584],{"text":32585,"start":9540,"end":9556},"Oh, das klingt jetzt aber sehr negativ.",{"sentences":32587,"speaker":149,"num_words":32590,"start":9559,"end":9684},[32588],{"text":32589,"start":9559,"end":9684},"Also bei den meisten, die mit denen wir hier sprechen, ist es tatsächlich so, dass dass so der Tenor ist, boah, irgendwann wollten sie halt, ne, so mehr selbstbestimmt und und mehr Kontrolle und deshalb was Eigenes, also das ist schon son gefühlt immer wie son Befreiungsschlag auch klingt.",49,{"sentences":32592,"speaker":575,"num_words":32603,"start":9687,"end":9923},[32593,32595,32597,32599,32601],{"text":32594,"start":9687,"end":9706},"Ja, nee, kann ich auf jeden Fall mitfühlen.",{"text":32596,"start":9710,"end":9849},"Also ich hab das fünf Jahre durchgehalten und dann wars genau ein bisschen wie Du sagst, ich hatte einfach das Gefühl ich will das anders machen, ich hab eine andere Idee davon, wie das funktionieren soll und ich glaub anders geht's besser und ich will einfach nicht, dass mir jemand sagt, was ich machen soll.",{"text":32598,"start":9849,"end":9860},"Finde ich auch blöd.",{"text":32600,"start":9864,"end":9872},"Ich will selber entscheiden.",{"text":32602,"start":9872,"end":9923},"Genau und dann hatte ich meine drei Co Founder*innen, die denen ging's auch so und dann hat sich das gut",91,{"sentences":32605,"speaker":149,"num_words":32609,"start":9923,"end":9941},[32606,32607],{"text":9928,"start":9923,"end":9926},{"text":32608,"start":9926,"end":9941},"Wie habt ihr zueinander gefunden?",6,{"sentences":32611,"speaker":575,"num_words":32185,"start":9944,"end":9959},[32612],{"text":32613,"start":9944,"end":9959},"Wir haben alle im gleichen Studio gearbeitet.",{"sentences":32615,"speaker":149,"num_words":32618,"start":9962,"end":10047},[32616],{"text":32617,"start":9962,"end":10047},"Oh, das war also gleichzeitig noch 'n schwerer Schlag für das Studio, wenn Du sagst, das waren so ungefähr zehn Leute und ihr nehmt da 'n paar schon mit, dann ist natürlich auch",33,{"sentences":32620,"speaker":575,"num_words":32437,"start":10049,"end":10070},[32621],{"text":32622,"start":10049,"end":10070},"Also, zu dem Zeitpunkt waren's sehr viel mehr.",{"sentences":32624,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":10070,"end":10076},[32625,32626],{"text":3817,"start":10070,"end":10073},{"text":1971,"start":10073,"end":10076},{"sentences":32628,"speaker":575,"num_words":32633,"start":10076,"end":10140},[32629,32631],{"text":32630,"start":10076,"end":10118},"waren's, glaube ich, die dreißig oder so Und es gab es gab eine große Runde Layouts.",{"text":32632,"start":10121,"end":10140},"Das heißt, sie haben das teilweise auch selber entschieden.",25,{"sentences":32635,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":10143,"end":10144},[32636],{"text":2389,"start":10143,"end":10144},{"sentences":32638,"speaker":575,"num_words":32641,"start":10144,"end":10177},[32639],{"text":32640,"start":10144,"end":10177},"Also war jetzt nicht, dass wir jetzt irgendwie Leute geklaut haben oder so.",13,{"sentences":32643,"speaker":149,"num_words":205,"start":10179,"end":10223},[32644,32645],{"text":3817,"start":10179,"end":10180},{"text":32646,"start":10183,"end":10223},"Also quasi eine coole Opportunity eigentlich gemacht und One Life kivacy Lampons, McLaminay.",{"sentences":32648,"speaker":575,"num_words":32618,"start":10227,"end":10314},[32649,32651,32653,32655],{"text":32650,"start":10227,"end":10261},"Genau, es war son bisschen, na ja gut, wir haben jetzt irgendwie alle keinen Job mehr.",{"text":32652,"start":10263,"end":10278},"Jetzt können wir uns auch probieren.",{"text":32654,"start":10283,"end":10292},"Schlimmer wird's nicht mehr.",{"text":32656,"start":10294,"end":10314},"Noch nix zu verlieren grade, also Ja,",{"sentences":32658,"speaker":149,"num_words":32663,"start":10314,"end":10363},[32659,32661],{"text":32660,"start":10314,"end":10348},"wir lachen, aber ist ja eigentlich genau die richtige Einstellung so, ne.",{"text":32662,"start":10348,"end":10363},"Also wenn nicht jetzt, wann dann.",18,{"sentences":32665,"speaker":575,"num_words":32232,"start":10366,"end":10500},[32666],{"text":32667,"start":10366,"end":10500},"Genau und dann zu dem Zeitpunkt war's so, dass es in Baden Württemberg eben die Möglichkeit gab, eine Förderung zu bekommen, die die wir dann zum Glück auch bekommen haben und das deswegen eben auch machen konnten überhaupt, weil sonst hätten wir halt gar nicht die Kohle gehabt, das überhaupt zu starten.",{"sentences":32669,"speaker":128,"num_words":32674,"start":10503,"end":10602},[32670,32672],{"text":32671,"start":10503,"end":10583},"Gab's, also ohne zu zu negativ dann über den Job vorher zu reden, aber gab's irgendwie Dinge, auf die ihr euch geeinigt habt oder schnell einigen konntet, die ihr definitiv anders machen wolltet?",{"text":32673,"start":10583,"end":10602},"Und in welche Bereichen lagen die?",39,{"sentences":32676,"speaker":575,"num_words":32687,"start":10605,"end":11143},[32677,32679,32681,32683,32685],{"text":32678,"start":10605,"end":10621},"Viele Sachen, viele, viele Sachen.",{"text":32680,"start":10621,"end":10633},"Ja, ist doch klar, oder?",{"text":32682,"start":10633,"end":11015},"Also in welchen Bereichen, also es war, glaube ich, viel, also für mich war ein großer Grund, weswegen ich selbstständig sein wollte und so arbeiten wollte, wie wir es jetzt machen, dass ich ein für mich war einfach diese Firma mit ungefähr dreißig Leuten hat sich für mich einmal zu groß angefühlt und mir gefällt es viel besser in 'nem ganz ganz kleinen Team zu arbeiten, weil diese große Firma hat einfach so wahnsinnig viel Zeit gefressen mit Meetings und Absprachen und dann hat jemand was nicht mitbekommen, dann wurden Sachen doppelt gemacht oder verworfen, irgendwie unsichtbare Hierarchien, das fand ich blöd und ich ja, das war son bisschen, was wir dann anders machen wollten und es gab auch teilweise Phasen, wo dann doch gecrunched wurde, irgendwie viele Überstunden gemacht haben auf eine Art, die ich nicht so, die mir nicht so gefallen hat.",{"text":32684,"start":11015,"end":11037},"Genau, wo wir gesagt haben, wir wollen das anders machen.",{"text":32686,"start":11037,"end":11143},"Also wir sind auch relativ schnell, nachdem wir angefangen haben, dazu übergegangen, nur vier Tage die Woche zu arbeiten, was mir sehr viel besser gefällt, wo wo ich's Gefühl hab, wir können sehr viel effektiver einfach arbeiten und es irgendwie uns allen besser geht.",208,{"sentences":32689,"speaker":149,"num_words":32692,"start":11146,"end":11187},[32690],{"text":32691,"start":11146,"end":11187},"Und macht ihr, nur zur Verständnisfrage, macht ihr dann viermal acht oder viermal zehn Stunden?",15,{"sentences":32694,"speaker":575,"num_words":32291,"start":11190,"end":11234},[32695,32697,32699],{"text":32696,"start":11190,"end":11201},"Wir machen viermal Fünfzehn.",{"text":32698,"start":11205,"end":11216},"Also auf keinen Fall zehn.",{"text":32700,"start":11219,"end":11234},"Vielleicht sogar 'n bisschen weniger als acht.",{"sentences":32702,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":11234,"end":11238},[32703],{"text":3817,"start":11234,"end":11238},{"sentences":32705,"speaker":575,"num_words":32618,"start":11238,"end":11327},[32706,32708],{"text":32707,"start":11238,"end":11244},"Je nachdem.",{"text":32709,"start":11244,"end":11327},"Also jetzt gerade sind wir in 'ner Phase, wo, also wir haben jetzt letzte Woche unseren Betameiston abgegeben, da sind's eher acht, sonst sind's auch manchmal bisschen weniger als acht Stunden.",{"sentences":32711,"speaker":149,"num_words":32093,"start":11327,"end":11420},[32712,32714],{"text":32713,"start":11327,"end":11334},"Okay, cool.",{"text":32715,"start":11336,"end":11420},"Und Dennis deine Frage noch mal umzudrehen, gab's auch irgendwas, wo ihr euch sehr schwergetan hattet, dann 'n Konsens am Anfang zu finden mit wie wollen wir gemeinsam dieses und jenes machen?",{"sentences":32717,"speaker":575,"num_words":32724,"start":11423,"end":11598},[32718,32720,32722],{"text":32719,"start":11423,"end":11451},"Also mir fällt jetzt auf jeden Fall grad spontan dazu nichts ein.",{"text":32721,"start":11454,"end":11572},"Ich glaub, was es uns einfacher gemacht hat, war, dass wir eben vorher alle schon zusammengearbeitet haben und ja wussten, wie die anderen ticken Und und von daher uns ja schon dazu entschieden haben, dass wir das zusammen machen, weil wir schon geahnt haben, dass wir das alle ungefähr gleich sehen.",{"text":32723,"start":11575,"end":11598},"Darum gab's jetzt keine großen Sachen, wo wir uns uneinig waren.",74,{"sentences":32726,"speaker":149,"num_words":32157,"start":11598,"end":11743},[32727,32729,32731,32733,32735],{"text":32728,"start":11598,"end":11640},"Okay, dann lass mich die Frage anders stellen, weil ich dachte eigentlich, es kommt jetzt was anderes.",{"text":32730,"start":11643,"end":11653},"Aber ich versuch's noch mal.",{"text":32732,"start":11655,"end":11708},"Ich würde behaupten so, Spieleentwicklerinnen sind ja im Schnitt wahrscheinlich etwas kreativer als der durchschnittliche Softwareentwickler so, ja?",{"text":32734,"start":11708,"end":11738},"Also es kommt ja einfach mit der Branche so auch son bisschen, ne?",{"text":11746,"start":11742,"end":11743},{"sentences":32737,"speaker":149,"num_words":32079,"start":11743,"end":11814},[32738],{"text":32739,"start":11743,"end":11814},"Wie schwer oder leicht ist es euch da gefallen, euch zu dritt auf überhaupt eine Spielidee und ein Konzept zu einigen, was man dann initial verfolgt?",{"sentences":32741,"speaker":575,"num_words":32256,"start":11817,"end":11827},[32742],{"text":32743,"start":11817,"end":11827},"Zu viert sind wir",{"sentences":32745,"speaker":128,"num_words":575,"start":11829,"end":11834},[32746],{"text":32747,"start":11829,"end":11834},"So, sorry.",{"sentences":32749,"speaker":575,"num_words":32515,"start":11838,"end":11857},[32750,32752,32753],{"text":32751,"start":11838,"end":11844},"Am Anfang.",{"text":2700,"start":11848,"end":11849},{"text":32754,"start":11849,"end":11857},"Nicht schwer.",{"sentences":32756,"speaker":128,"num_words":32761,"start":11860,"end":11890},[32757,32759],{"text":32758,"start":11860,"end":11880},"Da holt er auch nicht drauf hinaus.",{"text":32760,"start":11880,"end":11890},"Aber was redet",10,{"sentences":32763,"speaker":575,"num_words":32450,"start":11893,"end":11920},[32764],{"text":32765,"start":11893,"end":11920},"was Ich überleg gerade, was deine was was wo Du was",{"sentences":32767,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":11923,"end":11924},[32768],{"text":371,"start":11923,"end":11924},{"sentences":32770,"speaker":575,"num_words":32185,"start":11927,"end":11945},[32771],{"text":32772,"start":11927,"end":11945},"was ich was ich jetzt erzählen sollte.",{"sentences":32774,"speaker":128,"num_words":32692,"start":11945,"end":11986},[32775,32777],{"text":32776,"start":11945,"end":11982},"Da kommt da kommt ja noch dahinter, was er was er eigentlich hören wollte.",{"text":3852,"start":11982,"end":11986},{"sentences":32779,"speaker":149,"num_words":32256,"start":11986,"end":11998},[32780],{"text":32781,"start":11986,"end":11998},"aber ist ja okay,",{"sentences":32783,"speaker":128,"num_words":575,"start":11998,"end":12005},[32784],{"text":32785,"start":11998,"end":12005},"ist ja",{"sentences":32787,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":12005,"end":12011},[32788],{"text":32789,"start":12005,"end":12011},"okay, aber",{"sentences":32791,"speaker":128,"num_words":575,"start":12011,"end":12016},[32792],{"text":32793,"start":12011,"end":12016},"ich dachte",{"sentences":32795,"speaker":149,"num_words":32603,"start":12016,"end":12249},[32796,32798,32799,32801,32803],{"text":32797,"start":12016,"end":12079},"nur, weißt Du, wenn wenn wir jetzt hier bei Lotum drei random Leute an einen Tisch setzen und sagen, überlegt euch mal ein gemeinsames Spiel.",{"text":2700,"start":12079,"end":12082},{"text":32800,"start":12082,"end":12138},"So, ich glaube schon, dass die länger brauchen würden, zu überlegen, ne, was fürn Genre, was fürn Stil, für wen ist das?",{"text":32802,"start":12138,"end":12165},"Also da da sind ja so viele Entscheidungen irgendwie auch Zeit.",{"text":32804,"start":12165,"end":12249},"Ich mein, ist ja cool, dass es für euch so geklappt hat und quasi da da ihr euch direkt einig wart, aber ich hätte da, damit hätt ich nicht gerechnet, sagen wir's.",{"sentences":32806,"speaker":128,"num_words":32814,"start":12249,"end":12379},[32807,32808,32810,32812],{"text":12256,"start":12249,"end":12253},{"text":32809,"start":12253,"end":12320},"Aber das zu verstehen, dann müssen wir jetzt noch, da komm ich 'n bisschen auf die Frage, ich eigentlich eben noch son bisschen im Kopf hatte.",{"text":32811,"start":12320,"end":12331},"Also zur bisschen Struktur.",{"text":32813,"start":12331,"end":12379},"Ihr seid vier oder Du hast gerade gesagt, ihr wart, also ihr habt zu viert gegründet, ist das richtig?",50,{"sentences":32816,"speaker":575,"num_words":32443,"start":12382,"end":12413},[32817,32818],{"text":12256,"start":12382,"end":12383},{"text":32819,"start":12383,"end":12413},"Jetzt haben wir mittlerweile eine Person eingestellt, eine Social Media Managerin.",{"sentences":32821,"speaker":128,"num_words":32437,"start":12416,"end":12436},[32822],{"text":32823,"start":12416,"end":12436},"Okay, aber die vier Gründerinnen sind noch dabei.",{"sentences":32825,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":12440,"end":12441},[32826],{"text":2389,"start":12440,"end":12441},{"sentences":32828,"speaker":128,"num_words":32164,"start":12441,"end":12488},[32829,32830],{"text":3817,"start":12441,"end":12444},{"text":32831,"start":12448,"end":12488},"Und dann da meine Frage, wenn man Ich hab verstanden, ihr arbeitet auch jetzt mit einem Publisher zusammen.",{"sentences":32833,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":12491,"end":12492},[32834],{"text":2389,"start":12491,"end":12492},{"sentences":32836,"speaker":128,"num_words":32814,"start":12492,"end":12617},[32837,32839,32841],{"text":32838,"start":12492,"end":12514},"Und wie war das jetzt in dem konkreten Fall?",{"text":32840,"start":12514,"end":12562},"Also erstens habt ihr schon habt ihr seitdem ihr gegründet habt, ein Spiel oder habt ihr schon verschiedene Sachen gemacht?",{"text":32842,"start":12565,"end":12617},"Und kommt dann der Publisher mit einer Idee und sagt, hier macht mal das oder pitcht ihr eine Spielidee, einem Publisher?",{"sentences":32844,"speaker":575,"num_words":32855,"start":12620,"end":12868},[32845,32847,32849,32851,32853],{"text":32846,"start":12620,"end":12633},"Die Spielideen kommen von uns.",{"text":32848,"start":12633,"end":12671},"Also wir haben jetzt, das ist jetzt unser zweites Spiel, was diesen Sommer rauskommen wird.",{"text":32850,"start":12674,"end":12703},"Was aber tatsächlich das erste Spiel war, mit dem wir angefangen haben zu entwickeln.",{"text":32852,"start":12703,"end":12828},"Also unser großes Spiel entwickeln wir quasi seit zweitausendeinundzwanzig und haben dann einen Prototypen gemacht, haben die Förderung bekommen und haben das hundert Jahre gefühlt gepitcht, bis wir dann endlich die Zusage hatten, dass wir das machen könnten und wir genug Geld haben, die Produktion zu machen.",{"text":32854,"start":12828,"end":12868},"In der Zwischenzeit haben wir dann unser zweites Spiel, was dann unser erster Release war, gemacht.",97,{"sentences":32857,"speaker":575,"num_words":32864,"start":12870,"end":12949},[32858,32860,32862],{"text":32859,"start":12870,"end":12918},"Das Spiel heißt Sticky Business, ist wesentlich kleiner auch und das kam eben im Sommer zweitausenddreiundzwanzig raus.",{"text":32861,"start":12920,"end":12933},"Wo wollt ihr die Frage hin?",{"text":32863,"start":12933,"end":12949},"Hab ich die Frage schon beantwortet?",29,{"sentences":32866,"speaker":128,"num_words":32873,"start":12952,"end":13081},[32867,32869,32871],{"text":32868,"start":12952,"end":12958},"Ja, genau.",{"text":32870,"start":12958,"end":13034},"Also das heißt, der Publisher hilft da an der Stelle dann beim Vermarkten und dem dem rausbringen, aber ihr hattet praktisch eine Idee und wollt ihr das machen.",{"text":32872,"start":13034,"end":13081},"Und ist das der, also sind die beiden Spiele bei dem gleichen Publisher oder sucht man sich da immer neue Leute?",51,{"sentences":32875,"speaker":575,"num_words":32882,"start":13084,"end":13219},[32876,32878,32880],{"text":32877,"start":13084,"end":13095},"Nee, sind zwei unterschiedliche Publisher.",{"text":32879,"start":13098,"end":13194},"Also wir hatten das Spiel auch dem, also das Spiel, was wir jetzt grade machen, auch den Publisher gepitcht, mit dem wir das erste gemacht haben, aber es war also auch einfach zu vom vom Scope hat's einfach nicht zusammengepasst.",{"text":32881,"start":13197,"end":13219},"Das ist der Grund, weswegen es dann zwei unterschiedliche geworden sind.",56,{"sentences":32884,"speaker":128,"num_words":32633,"start":13221,"end":13285},[32885],{"text":32886,"start":13221,"end":13285},"Das heißt, die Game Publisher haben auch ihr eigenes ihr eigenes Genre Feld, indem sie irgendwie aktiv sind oder was gut zu ihnen passt und",{"sentences":32888,"speaker":575,"num_words":32232,"start":13287,"end":13415},[32889,32891,32893,32895],{"text":32890,"start":13287,"end":13325},"Genau, viele haben, genau, viele haben son bisschen son Genre, was sie machen, manche auch nicht.",{"text":32892,"start":13327,"end":13365},"Also der Publisher, mit dem wir jetzt grade unser Spiel haben, die machen auch viele verschiedene Genres.",{"text":32894,"start":13365,"end":13379},"Sie sind nicht so spezialisiert.",{"text":32896,"start":13383,"end":13415},"Aber manche sind auch sehr spezialisiert und machen nur zum Beispiel Strategiespiele oder so.",{"sentences":32898,"speaker":149,"num_words":32223,"start":13417,"end":13593},[32899],{"text":32900,"start":13417,"end":13593},"Wie kommt das bei 'nem Publisher an, wenn ihr eigentlich gerade in eurem ersten Spiel arbeitet und ihr dann sagt, ah, wir sind zwar noch nicht fertig, aber wir hätten hier noch diese coole zweite Idee wenn ihr die nicht mit uns machen wollt, dann gehen wir irgendwo anders hin und arbeiten mit jemand anderem zwischenzeitlich schon mal daran weiter, obwohl wir noch nicht mal das fertig gemacht haben, was wir uns eigentlich zusammen vorgenommen hatten.",{"sentences":32902,"speaker":575,"num_words":32908,"start":13597,"end":13689},[32903,32905,32906],{"text":32904,"start":13597,"end":13639},"Also der Ablauf war ja so, wir hatten unser erstes großes Spiel, das haben wir angefangen zu pitchen.",{"text":2700,"start":13643,"end":13644},{"text":32907,"start":13644,"end":13689},"Dann haben die sich ja hundert Jahre Zeit gelassen und in der Zeit haben wir halt was anderes gemacht.",38,{"sentences":32910,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":13689,"end":13697},[32911],{"text":32912,"start":13689,"end":13697},"Ah, okay.",{"sentences":32914,"speaker":575,"num_words":32641,"start":13697,"end":13738},[32915,32917,32918],{"text":32916,"start":13697,"end":13726},"Wenn sie uns da schlecht von abhalten, das zu machen.",{"text":3817,"start":13729,"end":13730},{"text":32919,"start":13734,"end":13738},"Genau, ja.",{"sentences":32921,"speaker":149,"num_words":32873,"start":13740,"end":13868},[32922],{"text":32923,"start":13740,"end":13868},"Aber trotzdem ist ja dann auch in dem Moment der der Pitchzusage, ist ja quasi schon so dieser Beigeschmack von, okay, wir machen das jetzt mit euch, aber übrigens, wir haben schon angefangen dieses dieses zweite Spiel irgendwie auch zu machen, ne, aber das war kein Problem dann in der Unterhaltung.",{"sentences":32925,"speaker":575,"num_words":32932,"start":13871,"end":14135},[32926,32928,32930],{"text":32927,"start":13871,"end":13882},"Nee, das war kein Problem.",{"text":32929,"start":13882,"end":14095},"Ich glaube, es war, wenn ich jetzt zurückgucke, vielleicht sogar eher positiv, weil das Spiel halt sehr gut angekommen ist und es klar war, es ist was Kleines, wir arbeiten da ne, das ist dann abgeschlossen, wenn wir die Produktion von dem großen Spiel anfangen, wird das Kleine fertig sein und wenn, dann ist es halt nur positiv, weil man quasi dann die Audience ja von dem Spiel auch noch mal rüberziehen kann und sagen, wir haben hier noch 'n Spiel, wollt ihr das nicht auch ausprobieren?",{"text":32931,"start":14099,"end":14135},"Also das war kein, also zumindest so wie ich das mitbekommen hab, war das kein Problem.",108,{"sentences":32934,"speaker":128,"num_words":32164,"start":14137,"end":14180},[32935],{"text":32936,"start":14137,"end":14180},"Und habt ihr euch die Aufgaben dort irgendwie klar vorher definiert irgendwie aufgeteilt oder macht ihr alle ähnliche Dinge?",{"sentences":32938,"speaker":575,"num_words":32943,"start":14183,"end":14386},[32939,32941],{"text":32940,"start":14183,"end":14323},"Also es ist schon aufgeteilt, wir haben eine eine Game Artist, die die ganze Pixelart macht und eine Game Designerin, die quasi Konzepte macht und Mechaniken und alles in Unity zusammenbastelt, die Szenen zum Beispiel zusammenbaut und noch einen weiteren Programmierer, der auch tatsächlich eigentlich nur programmiert und mich.",{"text":32942,"start":14323,"end":14386},"Ich mach tatsächlich 'n bisschen ein Mischding, also ich programmier, aber ich mach auch Gamedesignonzepte, also bei mir ist son bisschen was dazwischen.",72,{"sentences":32945,"speaker":149,"num_words":32692,"start":14389,"end":14426},[32946],{"text":32947,"start":14389,"end":14426},"Und hat sich das so organisch ergeben oder war das eine bewusste Entscheidung bei allen?",{"sentences":32949,"speaker":575,"num_words":32873,"start":14426,"end":14560},[32950,32952,32953,32955,32957],{"text":32951,"start":14426,"end":14478},"Also es war so, dass wir eben in dem Studio, wo wir alle vorher zusammengearbeitet haben, in diesen Rollen schon gearbeitet haben.",{"text":2389,"start":14482,"end":14483},{"text":32954,"start":14486,"end":14502},"Beziehungsweise ich war vorher nur Programmiererin.",{"text":32956,"start":14502,"end":14526},"Ich hab vorhin eigentlich kein Gamedesign gemacht.",{"text":32958,"start":14526,"end":14560},"Das kam, ich war ehrlich gesagt, weiß ich gar nicht so genau, wie das kam.",{"sentences":32960,"speaker":575,"num_words":32965,"start":14560,"end":14754},[32961,32963],{"text":32962,"start":14560,"end":14597},"Vielleicht einfach, weil ich immer, weil ich immer alles weil ich immer alles besser weiß sein.",{"text":32964,"start":14599,"end":14754},"Aber nee, das war schön, weil wir hatten eben diese Rollen, aber dadurch, dass wir jetzt so eine so ein kleines Team sind, können alle viel mehr auch in anderen Bereichen 'n bisschen gucken und ausprobieren und so hat sich das dann son bisschen ergeben, dass ich da auch 'n bisschen mehr machen kann im Bereich Game Design, was mir dann irgendwie auch dann Spaß gemacht hat.",83,{"sentences":32967,"speaker":149,"num_words":32494,"start":14756,"end":14805},[32968],{"text":32969,"start":14756,"end":14805},"Und jetzt kommen wir vielleicht zu der eingangs gestellten Frage zurück, wie sehr Du dich als CTO fühlst oder auch nicht.",{"sentences":32971,"speaker":575,"num_words":32978,"start":14808,"end":15119},[32972,32974,32976],{"text":32973,"start":14808,"end":14948},"Genau, also ja, das zählt da son bisschen mit rein, ne, dass es bei mir dann doch so irgendwie sich in den letzten Jahren entwickelt hat, dass ich gar nicht nur programmiere, was ich auch total gut finde, weil ich das Gefühl hab, das ergänzt sich total gut, wenn's jemanden gibt, der quasi auf beiden Seiten sieht.",{"text":32975,"start":14952,"end":14967},"Was was geht denn und was geht nicht?",{"text":32977,"start":14967,"end":15119},"Es ergänzt sich, es ergänzt sich total gut, jemanden zu haben, der auf beiden Seiten so ein bisschen gucken okay, ich hab jetzt diese super Idee, aber ich weiß auch, wenn ich das jetzt vorschlage, dann müssen wir diese ganze diesen ganzen Code umbauen und dann da vielleicht schon mal ein bisschen Auge drauf hat, was geht und was nicht.",125,{"sentences":32980,"speaker":149,"num_words":32987,"start":15121,"end":15274},[32981,32983,32985],{"text":32982,"start":15121,"end":15180},"Und Du hattest hattest ja eingangs auch gesagt, na ja, das ist eine eine Diskussion, die Du auch im Team grade geführt hast so, ja.",{"text":32984,"start":15182,"end":15194},"Wie wie kam das denn auf?",{"text":32986,"start":15194,"end":15274},"Also war das jetzt quasi eine bewusste Entscheidung, okay, Du Du fühlst dich jetzt in dieser Rolle oder ist das so irgendwie gewachsen über Zeit, wie wie wie lief denn diese Diskussion im Team?",65,{"sentences":32989,"speaker":575,"num_words":33000,"start":15277,"end":15613},[32990,32992,32994,32996,32998],{"text":32991,"start":15277,"end":15488},"Also ich glaube, es ist mehr einfach gewachsen, als dass wir irgendwann gesagt haben so und ab jetzt mache ich fünfzig Prozent das und fünfzig Prozent das oder siebzig Prozent das und dreißig Prozent das, sondern es ist halt ganz oft so, dass man hat halt also bei unserem Vertrag, den wir mit unserem Publisher haben, haben wir jeden Monat ne, MyStones und da steht halt drin, das und das muss gemacht werden und wenn das gemacht werden muss, dann muss das halt jemand machen.",{"text":32993,"start":15490,"end":15576},"So und wenn jetzt mehr Gamedesign Arbeit da ist, dann muss die halt jemand machen und ich glaub, das war einfach auch ein großer Teil, dass einfach so war, gut, das muss jetzt gemacht werden.",{"text":32995,"start":15576,"end":15585},"Wer macht das?",{"text":32997,"start":15585,"end":15594},"Wer kann das machen?",{"text":32999,"start":15596,"end":15613},"Ich kann das machen und mir macht's Spaß.",135,{"sentences":33002,"speaker":575,"num_words":32443,"start":15613,"end":15644},[33003],{"text":33004,"start":15613,"end":15644},"Also ja, ich glaube, das ist einfach zu großen Teilen dadurch gekommen.",{"sentences":33006,"speaker":149,"num_words":33017,"start":15647,"end":15936},[33007,33009,33011,33013,33015],{"text":33008,"start":15647,"end":15684},"Okay, also wir können feststellen, Du bist nicht fehlplatziert in diesem Podcast hier.",{"text":33010,"start":15687,"end":15751},"Unabhängig von von Titel und allem anderen, weil das ja im Prinzip geht das ja genau das Mindset, was Du grade grade beschrieben hast.",{"text":33012,"start":15754,"end":15791},"Wie siehst Du denn persönlich so die Entwicklung von eurem Studio und von dir so?",{"text":33014,"start":15791,"end":15855},"Seht ihr euch in fünf oder zehn Jahren auch wieder mit dreißig Mann am Start und unterschiedlichen Spielen und unterschiedlichen Teams und keine Ahnung was?",{"text":33016,"start":15858,"end":15936},"Oder versucht ihr, auf Biegen und Brechen bei fünf Leuten, vier Leuten zu bleiben und jeder im Prinzip die Tätigkeit, die er genau jetzt macht, die nächsten fünf Jahre noch irgendwie fortzuführen.",109,{"sentences":33019,"speaker":149,"num_words":32450,"start":15939,"end":15964},[33020],{"text":33021,"start":15939,"end":15964},"Was was nimmt man sich vor, wenn man 'n Spielestudio aufmacht?",{"sentences":33023,"speaker":575,"num_words":32349,"start":15967,"end":16214},[33024,33026,33028],{"text":33025,"start":15967,"end":16022},"Also ich bei uns ist es, glaub ich, relativ klar, dass wir zumindest aktuell alle sagen, nee, ist grad eine gute Größe.",{"text":33027,"start":16025,"end":16074},"Ich will jetzt nicht, keine Ahnung, was ich in zehn Jahren denke, vielleicht denke ich da was ganz anderes kann ja sein.",{"text":33029,"start":16076,"end":16214},"Jetzt grade denke ich, nee, ich bin damit sehr zufrieden, dass wir 'n kleines Team sind und genauso mag ich arbeiten, Deswegen haben wir gar keine Pläne, irgendwie großartig Leute einzustellen und da sind wir uns, glaub ich, auch sehr einig, weil, ja, weil's einfach, glaub ich, nicht so richtig für uns ist grade.",{"sentences":33031,"speaker":149,"num_words":32086,"start":16217,"end":16286},[33032],{"text":33033,"start":16217,"end":16286},"Und wenn ihr so zufrieden seid mit dem Setting, was ihr jetzt grade habt, ihr habt, wenn ich mich an den Talk erinnert, zwanzig zweiundzwanzig gegründet, ne?",{"sentences":33035,"speaker":575,"num_words":32450,"start":16289,"end":16320},[33036],{"text":33037,"start":16289,"end":16320},"Einundzwanzig Anfang zweitausendzweiundzwanzig haben wir offiziell die Firma gestartet, genau, ja.",{"sentences":33039,"speaker":149,"num_words":32882,"start":16320,"end":16462},[33040,33042],{"text":33041,"start":16320,"end":16358},"Also so oder so, ihr habt ja jetzt schon son paar Jahre aufm Buckel damit.",{"text":33043,"start":16361,"end":16462},"Was wäre denn so der Rat, den Du der Katrin von vor 'n paar Jahren mitgeben würdest, sagen wir das, hey, wenn dir jetzt dieses Spielestudio startet, das sind son paar Dinge, auf die solltet ihr von Anfang an irgendwie achten.",{"sentences":33045,"speaker":575,"num_words":33054,"start":16466,"end":16997},[33046,33048,33050,33052],{"text":33047,"start":16466,"end":16584},"Also mir ganz persönlich würde ich, glaube ich, den Rat geben, nicht son großes Spiel zu machen, weil ich grade so viel hab, es dauert einfach alles viel zu lange und das Genre, also wir machen gerade 'n Farming Game, das war halt zweitausendeinundzwanzig total angesagt.",{"text":33049,"start":16588,"end":16885},"Mittlerweile gibt's halt Farming Games wie Sand am Meer und wir sind damit vielleicht einfach sogar auch bisschen spät, obwohl wir auch noch mal son bisschen Twist haben, deswegen ich mal, dass es trotzdem gut ankommt, aber für uns, also weil wir ja so ein kleines Team sind, ist es glaube ich total von Vorteil einfach kleine Spiele zu machen und jetzt gerade, wie die Gamesbranche so aussieht, ist es glaube ich generell eine gar nicht so eine schlechte Idee, weil's halt gerade mit Funding und so ziemlich schwierig ist, weil viele Publisher ihre Geldbeutel erst mal zugemacht haben und nicht mehr so viel Geld da ist wie irgendwie nach Corona, wo der große Boom war.",{"text":33051,"start":16888,"end":16959},"Darum ist das glaube ich grade son bisschen der Way to go für uns, also nach diesem großen Spiel werden wir auch auf jeden Fall erst mal wieder was Kleines machen.",{"text":33053,"start":16961,"end":16997},"Ob das jetzt der Rat ist, dem ich jedem Spielestudio geben würde, keine Ahnung.",207,{"sentences":33056,"speaker":575,"num_words":32437,"start":17000,"end":17018},[33057],{"text":33058,"start":17000,"end":17018},"Vielen wahrscheinlich schon, aber vielleicht auch nicht jedem.",{"sentences":33060,"speaker":149,"num_words":32855,"start":17021,"end":17266},[33061,33063,33065,33067,33069],{"text":33062,"start":17021,"end":17079},"Aber lass uns doch technisch trotzdem mal über diese diese größeren Spiele und Spielideen sprechen, einfach weil es vielleicht das Anspruchsvollere auch ist, ja.",{"text":33064,"start":17082,"end":17106},"Oder vielleicht auch nicht, kannst Du mir gerne widersprechen, ja.",{"text":33066,"start":17106,"end":17169},"Vielleicht ist es auch anspruchsvoller, irgendwie eine Mechanik in 'nem kleineren Spiel zu implementieren, weil einfach weniger weniger Space dafür da ist.",{"text":33068,"start":17171,"end":17207},"Aber wenn Du jetzt sagst, ihr habt eure Idee ist 'n Farming Spiel oder andersrum.",{"text":33070,"start":17207,"end":17266},"Bevor wir über die Idee und die Technik dahinter reden, willst Du vielleicht ganz kurz einmal das Spiel abreißen, damit alle da draußen son Einblick haben.",{"sentences":33072,"speaker":149,"num_words":32450,"start":17266,"end":17289},[33073],{"text":33074,"start":17266,"end":17289},"Ich hab's ja schon mal im Talk gesehen, aber vielleicht bin",{"sentences":33076,"speaker":128,"num_words":32692,"start":17289,"end":17333},[33077,33079],{"text":33078,"start":17289,"end":17297},"da da drauf.",{"text":33080,"start":17297,"end":17333},"Abreißen kann man auch unterschiedlich interpretieren, aber Moment einen kurzen Abriss geben.",{"sentences":33082,"speaker":149,"num_words":32148,"start":17333,"end":17399},[33083,33085,33087,33088,33089],{"text":33084,"start":17333,"end":17343},"Lecker damit.",{"text":33086,"start":17343,"end":17353},"Einen kurzen Abriss geben.",{"text":2700,"start":17353,"end":17356},{"text":2700,"start":17358,"end":17359},{"text":33090,"start":17364,"end":17399},"Stell dir vor, ich bin dein potenzieller Publisher und Du musst mir jetzt dieses Spiel witchen.",{"sentences":33092,"speaker":575,"num_words":33101,"start":17403,"end":17770},[33093,33095,33097,33099],{"text":33094,"start":17403,"end":17408},"Alles klar.",{"text":33096,"start":17411,"end":17439},"Also das Spiel, was wir machen, ist ein Witchy Farming Game.",{"text":33098,"start":17442,"end":17600},"Also 'n Spiel, das in 'ner Hexenwelt quasi spielt und der Clou ist, dass Du das Farming aber nicht selber machst, sondern Du hast Arkana constructs, das sind so kleine roboterartige Wesen und die kannst Du verzaubern und unter uns ist jetzt geheim nicht weitererzählen, aber das Verzauberndes Programmieren, sagen wir aber im Spiel niemandem, Programmieren ist gruselig.",{"text":33100,"start":17603,"end":17770},"Darum verzaubert man die und kann dann damit seine Farm automatisieren und es gibt noch eine Geschichte, also das ganze ist story based, dass die Hexe, die da die dich trainiert, verschwindet und verschiedene Portale in der Welt auftauchen, die alle völlig gehen und in der Story musst Du dann halt dich mit den Leuten anfreunden und die Portale wieder stabilisieren.",132,{"sentences":33103,"speaker":149,"num_words":33113,"start":17773,"end":17881},[33104,33105,33107,33109,33111],{"text":3817,"start":17773,"end":17774},{"text":33106,"start":17774,"end":17792},"Ich glaub, das haben alle da draußen verstanden.",{"text":33108,"start":17795,"end":17823},"Ich fand's auch megacool, als ich das erste Mal gehört hab.",{"text":33110,"start":17823,"end":17860},"Ich find's immer noch früher, als ich jetzt das zweite oder dritte Mal gehört hab.",{"text":33112,"start":17860,"end":17881},"Wie nähert ihr euch denn technisch sonem Spiel?",43,{"sentences":33115,"speaker":149,"num_words":32375,"start":17881,"end":18153},[33116,33118,33120,33122,33124],{"text":33117,"start":17881,"end":17935},"Weil also allein von dem, was ich jetzt schon gehört hab, stell ich mir vor, da sind halt sehr viele unterschiedliche Systeme beteiligt.",{"text":33119,"start":17935,"end":17964},"Da ist da sind irgendwie Produktionsketten mit drin von verschiedenen Rohstoffen.",{"text":33121,"start":17964,"end":18021},"Da ist 'n Balancing drin von, was brauchst Du wie oft und was kostet wie viel und was bringt welche Werte irgendwie mit.",{"text":33123,"start":18021,"end":18117},"Da sind eigenständig handelnde Akteure irgendwie drin, deine Roboter, ja, die ja irgendwie ohne dich laufen müssen, aber trotzdem irgendwie Teil von von dieser Welt und und der Engine und der Run Time irgendwie sein müssen.",{"text":33125,"start":18120,"end":18153},"Wenn ihr jetzt diese Idee habt, wie fangt ihr an, diese Systeme einzeln runterzubrechen?",{"sentences":33127,"speaker":575,"num_words":32212,"start":18156,"end":18343},[33128,33129,33131,33133],{"text":2389,"start":18156,"end":18157},{"text":33130,"start":18160,"end":18236},"Also das war auf jeden Fall eine Herausforderung, weil das Spiel schon 'n Umfang hat, wo es auch relativ lange gedauert hat, bis man erst mal 'n Game Loop zusammen hat.",{"text":33132,"start":18238,"end":18286},"Das Spiel, was wir vorher gemacht haben, Sticky Business, da macht man Sticker, Du bastelst Sticker aus verschiedenen Elementen.",{"text":33134,"start":18290,"end":18343},"Da hatten wir nach einem Tag einen Game Loop, wo Du schon was machen konntest und sehen konntest, ach so, das ist das Spiel.",{"sentences":33136,"speaker":149,"num_words":32450,"start":18345,"end":18375},[33137],{"text":33138,"start":18345,"end":18375},"Vielleicht einmal für alle Nichtspielentwickler da draußen, was ist ein Gamelop?",{"sentences":33140,"speaker":575,"num_words":32107,"start":18379,"end":18490},[33141,33143,33145],{"text":33142,"start":18379,"end":18413},"Ah, der Gamelop ist quasi, was Du im Spiel immer und immer wieder machst.",{"text":33144,"start":18413,"end":18442},"Also zum Beispiel in 'nem Fighting Game würdest Du Leute verprügeln.",{"text":33146,"start":18446,"end":18490},"Eine Runde Fighting Game wär zum Beispiel dann ein Loop, jemand verprügeln und gewinnen oder verlieren und dann noch mal.",{"sentences":33148,"speaker":149,"num_words":33153,"start":18492,"end":18611},[33149,33151],{"text":33150,"start":18492,"end":18545},"Und wenn Du davon sprichst, dass ihr einen Game Loop hattet, dann redeten wir aber immer noch über die konzeptionelle Ebene davon.",{"text":33152,"start":18545,"end":18611},"Also quasi sich einmal Gedanken zu machen, was gehört da alles dazu oder wirklich von 'nem funktionierenden Proof of Concect, wo man einmal durchklicken kann?",47,{"sentences":33155,"speaker":575,"num_words":32180,"start":18615,"end":18961},[33156,33158,33159,33161,33163],{"text":33157,"start":18615,"end":18660},"Genau, ich rede von im in der Engine, sodass ich's spielen kann oder ausprobieren kann eben, genau.",{"text":3817,"start":18660,"end":18662},{"text":33160,"start":18664,"end":18690},"Genau, das war was, was bei unserem vorigen Spiel einen Tag gedauert hat.",{"text":33162,"start":18690,"end":18770},"Jetzt hat's bei bei Richel of Raven, keine Ahnung Wochen gedauert, bis man da überhaupt was hat, was was man komplett einmal spielen kann und was dann irgendwie Sinn ergibt.",{"text":33164,"start":18773,"end":18961},"Und da haben wir es so gemacht, wir haben zuerst einen Prototypen gemacht, den konnte man auch schon komplett spielen, aber natürlich 'n viel kleineren Teil, also es waren viel weniger Pflanzen, viel weniger Constructs, viel weniger Character, die dabei sind, aber einmal quasi den Vertical Slice, was macht man in diesem Spiel, diesen Tag Nacht Rhythmus zum Beispiel, den man in Farming Games hat, dass dann über Nacht immer die Pflanzen wachsen und so weiter.",{"sentences":33166,"speaker":575,"num_words":33173,"start":18963,"end":19369},[33167,33169,33171],{"text":33168,"start":18963,"end":19040},"Für den Prototyp haben wir, glaube ich, ja, ich glaub so drei, vier Monate oder so gebraucht, bis der bis man den quasi ausprobieren konnte und wir den pitchen konnten.",{"text":33170,"start":19043,"end":19209},"Und was wir dann gemacht haben, als wir dann die Produktion angefangen haben, ist tatsächlich, wir haben quasi noch mal alles von vorne aufgebaut, weil der Prototypcode halt unmöglich war und es furchtbar gewesen wäre da drauf aufzubauen, weil das halt gar nicht so angelegt war, dass man das noch super erweitern kann, so es sollte einfach nur schnell sein, damit wir zeigen können, das hier soll das Spiel sein.",{"text":33172,"start":19211,"end":19369},"Genau und dann haben wir in der Produktion quasi jedes einzelne Feature noch mal neu aufgebaut, aufgeteilt in was was ist ein Feature, zum Beispiel, dass die Zeit läuft, es Nacht wird, dann die Pflanzen wachsen jeden Tag, dass man die wässern kann, alles nacheinander aufgeteilt in kleine Lotion Tasks und dann werden die nacheinander abgearbeitet, bis man was spielen kann.",161,{"sentences":33175,"speaker":149,"num_words":32180,"start":19371,"end":19716},[33176,33178,33180,33182,33184],{"text":33177,"start":19371,"end":19395},"Wie muss ich mir das in der in der Spieleentwicklung vorstellen?",{"text":33179,"start":19395,"end":19462},"Ich komm ja nur aus so klassischer Softwareentwicklung und da ist es ja so, dass ich viele Probleme ja auch schon durch Dependencies lösen kann.",{"text":33181,"start":19462,"end":19580},"Ich bau jetzt hier meine Web App und ich will irgendwie 'n Log in System haben, da gibt's irgend 'n irgend 'n Modul, was mir auf NPM oder Packages oder Cargo oder wo auch immer, in welcher Sprache ich unterwegs bin, irgendwie mir rein installieren kann.",{"text":33183,"start":19580,"end":19675},"Dann hab ich son User Management und 'n Log in System und vielleicht 'n Social Login oder keine Ahnung was oder ich bin eine Datenbankanbindung, das kann ich mir auch irgendwie reinziehen und muss sie noch konfigurieren.",{"text":33185,"start":19679,"end":19716},"Wenn ich jetzt in sonem Spiel bin, ja, natürlich bringt die Engine schon son bisschen was mit, so.",{"sentences":33187,"speaker":149,"num_words":32132,"start":19716,"end":19936},[33188,33190,33192],{"text":33189,"start":19716,"end":19766},"Aber ich dachte zum Beispiel, na, ich will son Tag Nacht Zyklus haben oder ich will hier son son Rohstoffsystem haben.",{"text":33191,"start":19766,"end":19902},"Ist das was, was man sich quasi für sein Spiel von Grund auf selbst bauen und designen muss oder ist das auch was, wo man son bisschen son Baukastensystem hat und sagen kann, na ja, das hole ich mir von irgendwo her und passt das noch an oder es gibt's vielleicht komplett out of the box schon irgendwie.",{"text":33193,"start":19905,"end":19936},"Was musstet ihr wirklich neu erfinden und wo konntet ihr auf anderen Sachen aufbauen?",{"sentences":33195,"speaker":575,"num_words":32180,"start":19939,"end":20277},[33196,33198,33200,33202,33204],{"text":33197,"start":19939,"end":20027},"Also für Gamechaniken tatsächlich oft schwierig, weil man will ja auch neue Mechaniken sich ausdenken, die nicht sind wie bei anderen Spielen, ansonsten könnten die Leute auch einfach die anderen Spiele spielen, müssten nicht dein Spiel spielen.",{"text":33199,"start":20030,"end":20160},"Es gibt schon bestimmte Sachen, wo wir auch Plug ins benutzen, also zum Beispiel für den Input, dass irgendwie verschiedene Controller erkannt werden und so weiter, das haben wir jetzt zum Beispiel nicht selber gebaut oder was ich auch schon mal benutzt hab, ist irgendwie 'n Safe System als Plug in runtergeladen.",{"text":33201,"start":20164,"end":20205},"Das haben wir jetzt für unser jetziges Spiel selber gemacht, aber habe ich auch schon als Plug in benutzt.",{"text":33203,"start":20209,"end":20248},"Solche Sachen, die eher so Systeme sind, die so unten drunter liegen, das funktioniert schon ganz gut.",{"text":33205,"start":20250,"end":20277},"Genau, aber ja für tatsächlich Mechaniken eher selber in den meisten Fällen.",{"sentences":33207,"speaker":149,"num_words":32663,"start":20280,"end":20321},[33208],{"text":33209,"start":20280,"end":20321},"Und das macht jetzt auch in, ich glaub, ich weiß gar nicht, ob wir das gefragt haben, Unity.",{"sentences":33211,"speaker":575,"num_words":32279,"start":20324,"end":20330},[33212,33213,33214],{"text":2389,"start":20324,"end":20325},{"text":12256,"start":20325,"end":20328},{"text":3817,"start":20328,"end":20330},{"sentences":33216,"speaker":149,"num_words":32581,"start":20333,"end":20411},[33217,33219],{"text":33218,"start":20333,"end":20368},"Und für alle da draußen, die noch nicht mit Unity gearbeitet haben, wie arbeitet man mit Unity?",{"text":33220,"start":20368,"end":20411},"Das ist ja bestimmt nicht so low Level Assemblure Code, sondern was macht man da?",{"sentences":33222,"speaker":575,"num_words":33227,"start":20413,"end":20596},[33223,33225],{"text":33224,"start":20413,"end":20581},"Genau, also Du hast halt deinen Editor, wo Du das Level oder quasi die Szene schon drin sehen kannst und da verschieden die Objekte rumschieben kannst und wie Du sie haben willst und auf den Objekten liegen, das sind Gameobjects, die haben ein sogenanntes Monobehavior und in denen kannst Du deinen Code dann schreiben, c-Sharp-Code, denen quasi zu sagen, was die machen sollen, ne.",{"text":33226,"start":20581,"end":20596},"Also laufen oder sich bewegen oder",70,{"sentences":33229,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":20598,"end":20599},[33230],{"text":3817,"start":20598,"end":20599},{"sentences":33232,"speaker":149,"num_words":33243,"start":20602,"end":20848},[33233,33235,33237,33239,33241],{"text":33234,"start":20602,"end":20692},"Und Du hattest vorhin ja auch schon mal erwähnt, dass einer der wichtigen Skills, die Du aus dem aus deinem ersten Job mitgenommen hast, war so dieses, wie arbeitet man im Team eigentlich an sonem Projekt zusammen, ne.",{"text":33236,"start":20692,"end":20705},"Wie macht ihr das jetzt?",{"text":33238,"start":20705,"end":20756},"Also hast eben schon gesagt, na ja, es gibt so verschiedene Notan Tasks, ja, und dann wird es einfach nacheinander abgearbeitet.",{"text":33240,"start":20756,"end":20771},"Das ist dann sehr simpel, so.",{"text":33242,"start":20771,"end":20848},"Ich hoffe ich hoffe für euch, es ist so, aber wahrscheinlich ist es nicht ganz so einfach, Wenn er jetzt son Task ist, ja, wir brauchen ein Tag Nacht System, so.",101,{"sentences":33245,"speaker":149,"num_words":33252,"start":20850,"end":21057},[33246,33248,33250],{"text":33247,"start":20850,"end":21007},"Macht es dann eine Person alleine oder ist das dann so, na ja, da brauch ich, ich hab wirklich keine Ahnung, ja, aber ich sag mal so ganz einfach, da brauch ich einen einen Sonne- und ein Mondsymbol, also braucht muss mir hier mein Grafikmensch erst mal was machen, dann kann ich das irgendwie im im Spiel implementieren, dann macht jemand anderes den Loop davon.",{"text":33249,"start":21010,"end":21044},"Oder ist das eher so, einer macht alles davon und own quasi dieses ganze Feature?",{"text":33251,"start":21044,"end":21057},"Wie seid ihr da so aufgestellt?",86,{"sentences":33254,"speaker":575,"num_words":33153,"start":21059,"end":21182},[33255,33257,33259,33261,33263],{"text":33256,"start":21059,"end":21091},"Genau, also zuerst mal müssen die Notion Charts natürlich irgendwo herkommen, ne.",{"text":33258,"start":21091,"end":21105},"Also die erscheinen nicht einfach.",{"text":33260,"start":21108,"end":21113},"Ja, ja.",{"text":33262,"start":21116,"end":21171},"Genau, also das machen wir meistens so, dass wir uns einfach auch zusammensetzen und überlegen, was was wollen wir denn jetzt eigentlich machen?",{"text":33264,"start":21171,"end":21182},"Was soll denn eigentlich passieren?",{"sentences":33266,"speaker":575,"num_words":33277,"start":21185,"end":21572},[33267,33269,33271,33273,33275],{"text":33268,"start":21185,"end":21207},"Und dann uns eben die Tasks erstellen oder irgendwie zusammenschreiben.",{"text":33270,"start":21211,"end":21366},"Genau, dann ist es normalerweise so, wenn ich jetzt, wenn er jetzt sagt zum Beispiel das Tag und Nacht Feature, das würde wahrscheinlich eine Gamedesigner mal aufschreiben, was soll denn da eigentlich passieren in im kleinsten Detail, so wie lange soll das dauern, was passiert, wenn's dunkel wird, was passiert, wenn man schlafen geht und so weiter und so weiter.",{"text":33272,"start":21368,"end":21464},"Dann kriegt das Notion Kärtchen 'n Programmierer zugeschoben, das einzubauen und dann denkt man, oh die Programmieragrafiken, die wir da reingemacht haben, sind aber ganz schön hässlich, vielleicht sogar das Kärtchen mal noch der Artist zu schieben.",{"text":33274,"start":21468,"end":21540},"Die dann noch entsprechend Grafiken macht und 'n Bett malt oder irgendwie die das das Licht einstellt, damit man auch sieht, dass es dunkel wird und so weiter.",{"text":33276,"start":21540,"end":21572},"Also es sind ist eigentlich in jedem Feature sind eigentlich alle irgendwie immer 'n bisschen beteiligt.",151,{"sentences":33279,"speaker":149,"num_words":32494,"start":21574,"end":21626},[33280,33281,33282,33283,33285],{"text":3817,"start":21574,"end":21575},{"text":3817,"start":21579,"end":21580},{"text":2700,"start":21580,"end":21582},{"text":33284,"start":21584,"end":21603},"Und vielleicht eine eine letzte technische Frage dazu.",{"text":33286,"start":21603,"end":21626},"Wie macht ihr grade in sonem kleinen Team Quality Assurance?",{"sentences":33288,"speaker":149,"num_words":33293,"start":21630,"end":21734},[33289,33291],{"text":33290,"start":21630,"end":21681},"So, weiß nicht, gibt's da gibt's das automatisierte Tests, gibt's da Juni Tests über die die Game Logik?",{"text":33292,"start":21681,"end":21734},"Macht man das nur so end zu end, indem man das das Spiel oder bestimmte Teile davon einfach immer wieder spielt, wie",40,{"sentences":33295,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":21736,"end":21737},[33296],{"text":349,"start":21736,"end":21737},{"sentences":33298,"speaker":149,"num_words":32279,"start":21737,"end":21746},[33299],{"text":33300,"start":21737,"end":21746},"schafft ihr das?",{"sentences":33302,"speaker":575,"num_words":33313,"start":21748,"end":21993},[33303,33305,33307,33309,33311],{"text":33304,"start":21748,"end":21768},"Also wir haben tatsächlich gar keine automatisierten Tests.",{"text":33306,"start":21768,"end":21786},"Ich weiß, dass manche Leute das auch machen.",{"text":33308,"start":21786,"end":21817},"Ich hab das noch nie gemacht automatisiert irgendwie 'n Spiel zu testen.",{"text":33310,"start":21820,"end":21940},"Bei uns war es jetzt immer so, also bei dem kleinen Spiel haben wir es zu 'nem großen Teil tatsächlich selber getestet, wobei wir auch Outsourcing QA hatten, also eine tatsächlich eine Firma, die nichts anderes machen als den ganzen Tag das Spiel zu testen und dann die Bugs aufzuschreiben.",{"text":33312,"start":21943,"end":21993},"Und jetzt ist es auch wieder so, dass wir jetzt da das Spiel relativ großes haben, wir entsprechend Tester, die das testen.",100,{"sentences":33315,"speaker":575,"num_words":33322,"start":21996,"end":22167},[33316,33318,33320],{"text":33317,"start":21996,"end":22034},"Auch nicht nur eine Person, sondern mehrere, die dann eben immer wieder spielen und verschiedene Sachen ausprobieren.",{"text":33319,"start":22034,"end":22071},"Da gibt's da eine große Liste an Testcases, was ausprobiert werden muss jedes Mal.",{"text":33321,"start":22071,"end":22167},"Da stehen quasi alle Features drin, die ausprobiert werden müssen und dann kann abgehakt werden, funktioniert oder funktioniert nicht und hoffentlich ist alles grün, meistens nicht und dann werden einfach die Tickets gemacht und wir bearbeiten die dann.",69,{"sentences":33324,"speaker":149,"num_words":32185,"start":22169,"end":22191},[33325,33326],{"text":22173,"start":22169,"end":22170},{"text":33327,"start":22175,"end":22191},"Warum kompliziert, wenn's auch einfach geht?",{"sentences":33329,"speaker":128,"num_words":32633,"start":22194,"end":22256},[33330],{"text":33331,"start":22194,"end":22256},"Wie sehr habt ihr denn dann jetzt eine Deadline und wie gut und ab welchem Zeitpunkt kann man das einschätzen, ob das klappt oder nicht?",{"sentences":33333,"speaker":575,"num_words":33344,"start":22258,"end":22721},[33334,33336,33338,33340,33342],{"text":33335,"start":22258,"end":22436},"Also schwer auf jeden Fall einzuschätzen, deswegen werden Spiele ja auch ständig verschoben, weil man aber denkt, ja, das schaffe ich schon und dann merkt man, ach so, da gibt's noch dieses Problem und ah, wenn ich das jetzt mach, dann hat das noch diesen Einfluss auf dieses System, was einfach nicht abzusehen ist, deswegen baut man halt einfach super viel Puffer ein und hofft, dass es reicht und meistens reicht's halt nicht.",{"text":33337,"start":22438,"end":22489},"Bei uns war es jetzt so, wir haben quasi das Spiel gepitcht und haben gesagt, wir brauchen achtzehn Monate, das war geraten.",{"text":33339,"start":22489,"end":22552},"Wir haben gedacht, ja das wird schon ungefähr passen und haben quasi einen groben Plan aufgestellt, wann wir was machen, was würde Sinn ergeben.",{"text":33341,"start":22552,"end":22636},"Also erst muss ich quasi den Tag Nacht Rhythmus bauen, damit ich bauen kann, dass dann die Pflanzen wachsen und so weiter Und haben gesagt, jo und dann sind wir einfach losgelaufen und haben mal geguckt.",{"text":33343,"start":22639,"end":22721},"Es lief eigentlich bei uns jetzt ganz gut, also wir sind ganz gut halbwegs hingekommen, also wir haben jetzt zwei Monate verlängert, als wir ursprünglich geplant haben, was noch ganz okay ist, finde ich.",189,{"sentences":33346,"speaker":575,"num_words":32164,"start":22721,"end":22773},[33347,33349],{"text":33348,"start":22721,"end":22759},"Ich hab auch schon in Projekten beteiligt, die haben sich dann verdoppelt oder so.",{"text":33350,"start":22762,"end":22773},"Von daher hab ich ganz",{"sentences":33352,"speaker":149,"num_words":32164,"start":22773,"end":22830},[33353,33355,33357],{"text":33354,"start":22773,"end":22792},"stolz Meine, glaub ich, alle schon.",{"text":33356,"start":22792,"end":22802},"Irgendeiner Ahnung.",{"text":33358,"start":22802,"end":22830},"Bin ich ganz stolz und denk zwei Monate ist eigentlich okay.",{"sentences":33360,"speaker":575,"num_words":32590,"start":22832,"end":22960},[33361,33363,33365,33367,33369],{"text":33362,"start":22832,"end":22848},"Genau, denk zwei Monate ist eigentlich okay.",{"text":33364,"start":22850,"end":22869},"Genau und ja absehbar, dass was nicht klappt.",{"text":33366,"start":22872,"end":22878},"Unterschiedlich, ne.",{"text":33368,"start":22878,"end":22940},"Manchmal läuft man, bis man fast am meisten ist und merkt dann, oh scheiße, hier fehlt noch ganz viel und das haben wir irgendwie übersehen.",{"text":33370,"start":22944,"end":22960},"Manchmal kann man es auch schon voraussehen.",{"sentences":33372,"speaker":575,"num_words":32141,"start":22964,"end":23147},[33373,33375,33377],{"text":33374,"start":22964,"end":23041},"Also wir hatten zum Beispiel immer viele Probleme mit dem Writing, weil sich das immer verschoben hat und wir irgendwann gemerkt haben oh krass, das ist doch ganz schön viel mehr als wir dachten.",{"text":33376,"start":23044,"end":23144},"Wir haben uns einfach verschätzt, weil wir einfach damit nicht so wahnsinnig viel Erfahrung hatten und dann irgendwann gesehen haben, ah okay, wenn wir jetzt erst so weit sind und wir müssten eigentlich in zwei Milestones dort sein, dann schaffen wir das nicht.",{"text":2700,"start":23146,"end":23147},{"sentences":33379,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":23149,"end":23150},[33380],{"text":3817,"start":23149,"end":23150},{"sentences":33382,"speaker":149,"num_words":32478,"start":23153,"end":23197},[33383,33385],{"text":33384,"start":23153,"end":23184},"Ich würde zu 'nem ganz anderen Thema kommen, wenn Du dazu keine Frage mehr hast.",{"text":33386,"start":23184,"end":23197},"Dennis guckt in den Raum.",{"sentences":33388,"speaker":128,"num_words":33399,"start":23201,"end":23492},[33389,33391,33393,33395,33397],{"text":33390,"start":23201,"end":23220},"Ja, ich, da ich überleg grad noch son bisschen.",{"text":33392,"start":23220,"end":23310},"Also ich mein, eine der der Stereobilder Development gibt und ja auch ein Grund, den Du genannt hast, den Du gerne anders machen würdest, ist eben ja irgendwie Crunch Time und Überstunden anders und irgendwie zu viel machen.",{"text":33394,"start":23310,"end":23348},"Und da war grade mein Gedankengang noch son bisschen, ne, wo wo kommt das ursprünglich her?",{"text":33396,"start":23348,"end":23429},"Sind das dann irgendwie einfach Kosten, Einsparungen oder Kalkulation, die ja letztendlich irgendwie auch darauf basieren, ne, den dann, dass das Game letztendlich auch teurer machen, wenn man länger braucht.",{"text":33398,"start":23432,"end":23492},"Ja und wie ihr die möglichst entgeht, weil ich ihr habt den Eindruck, euch ist schon wichtig, das nicht so sehr zu haben.",116,{"sentences":33401,"speaker":575,"num_words":32100,"start":23494,"end":23567},[33402,33404],{"text":33403,"start":23494,"end":23508},"Ja, so gut es eben geht, ne.",{"text":33405,"start":23508,"end":23567},"Ich glaub also zu hundert Prozent vermeiden, dass man jemals Überstunden macht, ist glaub sehr schwer, keine Ahnung, ob das für jemand schafft, dann",{"sentences":33407,"speaker":149,"num_words":32478,"start":23569,"end":23615},[33408,33410,33412],{"text":33409,"start":23569,"end":23591},"Aber das geht, glaub ich, in keiner Branche, oder?",{"text":33411,"start":23591,"end":23613},"Das hat ja nicht mal was mit euch zu tun.",{"text":2700,"start":23613,"end":23615},{"sentences":33414,"speaker":575,"num_words":33424,"start":23615,"end":23823},[33415,33416,33418,33420,33422],{"text":2700,"start":23615,"end":23617},{"text":33417,"start":23620,"end":23741},"Genau, aber ja klar, also das Problem ist natürlich, ich hab jetzt hier irgendwie mal Publisher gesagt, ich mach das in achtzehn Monaten fertig und dann hab ich irgendwie 'n Release Date, wo wir sagen, ja da soll das fertig sein und das Geld reicht dann aber ja logischerweise auch nur bis dahin.",{"text":33419,"start":23744,"end":23763},"Ja und und dann, was mache ich dann, ne?",{"text":33421,"start":23766,"end":23812},"Also es muss ja irgendwie weitergehen, es muss irgendwie Einkommen reinkommen, sonst kann ich meine Miete nicht bezahlen.",{"text":33423,"start":23812,"end":23823},"Das ist natürlich schlecht.",85,{"sentences":33426,"speaker":575,"num_words":33243,"start":23826,"end":24070},[33427,33429,33431,33433,33435],{"text":33428,"start":23826,"end":23940},"Genau und ja, wir versuchen son bisschen Ich also ich glaube, dass der Hauptpunkt, den ich sehe, ist, dass man son bisschen manchmal auch die perfektionistische Ader son bisschen ablegen muss, wo man denkt, ja, sehr voll geil, wenn ich jetzt dieses Feature noch so bauen könnte.",{"text":33430,"start":23944,"end":23969},"Aber ist es wirklich so, macht es wirklich das Spiel so viel besser?",{"text":33432,"start":23973,"end":24019},"Muss es wirklich unbedingt sein oder könnte ich vielleicht hier auch eine Corner cutten, damit ich's trotzdem fertig kriege?",{"text":33434,"start":24022,"end":24028},"Und ja genau.",{"text":33436,"start":24028,"end":24070},"Also wie gesagt, ich will auch nicht sagen, dass wir gar keine Überschunden machen, weil das stimmt auch nicht.",{"sentences":33438,"speaker":575,"num_words":32814,"start":24070,"end":24194},[33439],{"text":33440,"start":24070,"end":24194},"Also im Dezember hatten wir zum Beispiel sone Zeit, wo wir wirklich tatsächlich prominenttem Writing hatten und die Lokalisation halt fertig sein musste, damit das Ganze übersetzt werden kann, wo es dann doch mal eng wurde, weil ja, ansonsten verschiebt sich halt alles, wenn die Low Carb nicht fertig ist.",{"sentences":33442,"speaker":149,"num_words":32423,"start":24196,"end":24434},[33443,33444,33445,33447,33449],{"text":3817,"start":24196,"end":24197},{"text":2700,"start":24201,"end":24202},{"text":33446,"start":24202,"end":24251},"Ich stell mal eine eine These auf und dann kannst Du mir sagen, ob ich falsch leg grad drin.",{"text":33448,"start":24254,"end":24367},"Aber diese diese Crunch Time, die kommt ja wahrscheinlich öfter vom Publisher als von dem Studio, weil der also weil der Publisher ja wahrscheinlich mehr den Druck aufbaut als das Studio selbst beziehungsweise das Studio ja quasi nur indirekt dann, weil der Publisher eben den Druck macht.",{"text":33450,"start":24370,"end":24434},"Der Publisher muss ja irgendwie auch den Druck machen, weil er ist ja für, ne, was haben wir gesagt, Marketing, Vertrieb, Distribution und so was alles verantwortlich.",{"sentences":33452,"speaker":149,"num_words":33463,"start":24434,"end":24729},[33453,33455,33457,33459,33461],{"text":33454,"start":24434,"end":24474},"Und da hängt er ja mit 'nem Fuß in der Welt, die ganz anders funktioniert als Softwareentwicklung.",{"text":33456,"start":24478,"end":24548},"So, wenn Du große Marketingkampagnen schaltest mit Werbung vielleicht in in Print oder in anderen Medien zusammen, ja, die haben ja auch wiederum Deadlines und so was, ja.",{"text":33458,"start":24548,"end":24615},"Also auch da ist ja der Publisher am Ende auch wieder 'n bisschen nur Getriebener von der Welt, in der er sich bewegt oder oder sie sich bewegen, so.",{"text":33460,"start":24617,"end":24647},"Und deshalb lässt sich das vielleicht am Ende gar nicht zu hundert Prozent auflösen.",{"text":33462,"start":24647,"end":24729},"Und je größer das Spiel ist und je größer der Werbeaufwand, der damit verbunden ist, desto enger sind die Deadlines, desto teilter ist das Budget und desto mehr Druck entsteht da quasi auch.",121,{"sentences":33465,"speaker":149,"num_words":32814,"start":24729,"end":24848},[33466,33468,33470],{"text":33467,"start":24729,"end":24771},"Also ist das natürlich 'n Problem, was sich mit der Größe des Spiels auch exponiert wahrscheinlich irgendwann.",{"text":33469,"start":24774,"end":24804},"Und dann dann kommt man da halt auch einfach nicht mehr so einfach raus, ja.",{"text":33471,"start":24804,"end":24848},"Und dann, also so meine Theorie, aber wie gesagt, ich bin ja auch nicht in dieser Brodo drin.",{"sentences":33473,"speaker":575,"num_words":33479,"start":24850,"end":25015},[33474,33475,33477],{"text":24854,"start":24850,"end":24851},{"text":33476,"start":24856,"end":24977},"Also ich kann mir sehr gut vorstellen, dass es sich mit größeren Spielen auch vervielfacht, weil's da auch eben noch so viel schwieriger ist einzuschätzen, wie lange ich denn jetzt brauche, weil ich kann viel einfacher sehen, was was muss ich in den nächsten zwei Monaten machen, als was mach ich in achtzehn Monaten?",{"text":33478,"start":24981,"end":25015},"Kann ich ja null einschätzen, wenn das Spiel fast fertig ist, wie lange dann Sachen dauern.",71,{"sentences":33481,"speaker":149,"num_words":32086,"start":25019,"end":25088},[33482],{"text":33483,"start":25019,"end":25088},"Andererseits könnte ich dir auch sagen, wenn Du das zehnte Battlefield in Folge baust, dann sollst Du vielleicht auch langsam irgendwann verstanden haben, wie lange es braucht.",{"sentences":33485,"speaker":575,"num_words":406,"start":25090,"end":25168},[33486,33487,33489,33491,33493],{"text":25094,"start":25090,"end":25091},{"text":33488,"start":25096,"end":25101},"Ja, das stimmt.",{"text":33490,"start":25101,"end":25115},"Das ist 'n ja guter Punkt.",{"text":33492,"start":25118,"end":25128},"Boah Du, keine Ahnung.",{"text":33494,"start":25128,"end":25168},"In Triple A bin ich gar nicht drin, weiß ich überhaupt gar nicht, wie das funktioniert.",{"sentences":33496,"speaker":575,"num_words":32291,"start":25168,"end":25204},[33497],{"text":33498,"start":25168,"end":25204},"Kann ich mir auch null vorstellen in Triple A zu arbeiten, muss ich ganz ehrlich sagen.",{"sentences":33500,"speaker":149,"num_words":32437,"start":25207,"end":25224},[33501],{"text":33502,"start":25207,"end":25224},"Ja, das könnte ich glaub ich auch nicht.",{"sentences":33504,"speaker":128,"num_words":32692,"start":25226,"end":25263},[33505,33507],{"text":33506,"start":25226,"end":25244},"Was macht für dich 'n erfolgreiches Spiel aus?",{"text":33508,"start":25247,"end":25263},"Kannst Du das kannst Du das runterbrechen?",{"sentences":33510,"speaker":575,"num_words":33521,"start":25267,"end":25365},[33511,33513,33515,33517,33519],{"text":33512,"start":25267,"end":25273},"Erfolgreiches Spiel.",{"text":33514,"start":25273,"end":25292},"Boah das Also erfolgreich inwiefern, ne?",{"text":33516,"start":25292,"end":25312},"Es gibt natürlich Spiele, die sind finanziell erfolgreich.",{"text":33518,"start":25315,"end":25356},"Gibt auch Spiele, die sind erfolgreich und gewinnen viele Preise, weil sie irgendwie artistisch besonders wertvoll sind.",{"text":33520,"start":25358,"end":25365},"Was wär für",36,{"sentences":33523,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":25367,"end":25371},[33524],{"text":33525,"start":25367,"end":25371},"Was ist",{"sentences":33527,"speaker":128,"num_words":32761,"start":25371,"end":25399},[33528,33530],{"text":33529,"start":25371,"end":25380},"denn dein Ziel?",{"text":33531,"start":25383,"end":25399},"Was fürn Spiel möchtest Du denn kreieren?",{"sentences":33533,"speaker":575,"num_words":32978,"start":25402,"end":25705},[33534,33536],{"text":33535,"start":25402,"end":25623},"Also ich würde gern was machen, was ich was irgendwie, also ja klar, sonen künstlerischen Anbruch hab ich schon auch, ich möchte was machen, wo ich denk, wo ich dann am Ende sagen kann, das ist ein schönes Spiel, da bin ich stolz drauf, was ich gemacht hab, so, es hat vielleicht auch irgendwie, bringt vielleicht Leute weiter oder zumindest macht es Leute glücklich, wenn sie's spielen oder sie denken vielleicht noch mal irgendwann drüber nach so, das ist schon so mein Anspruch und ich möchte natürlich auch gern meine Miete bezahlen.",{"text":33537,"start":25623,"end":25705},"Also ich hätt schon auch gern finanziell Erfolg, weil ansonsten müsste ich das, dann wär das 'n Hobby, ne und aber es ist ja mein Beruf, also müsste schon irgendwie beides da sein.",{"sentences":33539,"speaker":149,"num_words":33549,"start":25707,"end":26042},[33540,33541,33543,33545,33547],{"text":2389,"start":25707,"end":25708},{"text":33542,"start":25708,"end":25746},"Da würde ich noch mal reingrätschen, wo Du sagst, na ja, ansonsten wär's 'n Hobby.",{"text":33544,"start":25749,"end":25781},"Ich würde nicht sagen, dass es 'n Hobby ist, nur weil's kein Geld verdient.",{"text":33546,"start":25781,"end":25808},"Ich würde sagen, vielleicht ist es ja auch Kunst, so, ne.",{"text":33548,"start":25808,"end":26042},"Also wenn ich mir Kunst da draußen so im Großen und Ganzen anguckt, dann kann man sich ja auch legitimerweise die Frage stellen, trägt sich das immer selbst oder lebt Kunst nicht auch davon, dass sie stellenweise einfach auch quersubventioniert wird, ja, so von anderer, also wie wie viel Kunst spielt sich da draußen ab, die nicht wirtschaftlich erfolgreich wäre, wenn sie nicht irgendwie andere Einkommen noch dazu hätte und dass Spieleentwicklung am Ende nicht auch eine Form von Kunst, so wie Film und Malerei auch eine Form von Kunst sein kann.",133,{"sentences":33551,"speaker":575,"num_words":32494,"start":26044,"end":26099},[33552,33554],{"text":33553,"start":26044,"end":26084},"Ja, nee, Du hast recht, da muss ich da muss ich doch noch mal bisschen zurückrudern.",{"text":33555,"start":26087,"end":26099},"Nee, stimme ich dir zu.",{"sentences":33557,"speaker":149,"num_words":33565,"start":26102,"end":26290},[33558,33560,33562,33564],{"text":33559,"start":26102,"end":26174},"Aber trotzdem gibt's wahrscheinlich wenig Spiele, die künstlerisch erfolgreich sind, aber sich wirtschaftlich einfach überhaupt gar nicht tragen, weil's da wahrscheinlich einfach keine keine vergleichbaren Fördermechanismen für gibt, ne.",{"text":33561,"start":26174,"end":26268},"Also wenn ich jetzt sagen würde, ich bin irgendwie renommierter Künstler so und häng halt irgendwie viel in in Museen rum oder so, dann hab ich son bisschen, kann kann ich son son Cashflow davon irgendwie machen noch, ja.",{"text":33563,"start":26268,"end":26288},"Aber für Spiele gibt's ja das Äquivalent nicht.",{"text":2700,"start":26288,"end":26290},77,{"sentences":33567,"speaker":128,"num_words":32164,"start":26292,"end":26343},[33568],{"text":33569,"start":26292,"end":26343},"Entschuldigung, ich muss nur über den Ausdruck, ich hänge muss nicht drum lachen, aber ja, ihr habt kurz gebraucht.",{"sentences":33571,"speaker":149,"num_words":32232,"start":26346,"end":26475},[33572,33574],{"text":33573,"start":26346,"end":26449},"Ja, meine meine Werke werden halt ausgestellt, sondern dann dann lebe ich ja nicht davon, dass dass viele Leute mir direkt irgendwie Geld zuschustern, aber halt durch den durch den stellvertretenden Konsum meiner Kunst sozusagen kann ich dann irgendwie damit leben.",{"text":33575,"start":26449,"end":26475},"Aber das das gibt's ja bei bei Spielen weiß ich nicht.",{"sentences":33577,"speaker":575,"num_words":32072,"start":26477,"end":26622},[33578,33580,33582],{"text":33579,"start":26477,"end":26559},"Ja, also Du musst natürlich schon, wenn Du jetzt irgendwie Förderung willst, bei allermeisten Förderungen schreibst Du schon mit rein, wie Du das Spiel vermarkten willst und wie das Geld wieder reinbekommen willst, ne.",{"text":33581,"start":26559,"end":26565},"Also Ja.",{"text":33583,"start":26567,"end":26622},"Stimmt schon, aber es gibt natürlich auch irgendwie Serious Games, die es irgendwie, die die weniger marktorientiert sind, sag ich mal.",{"sentences":33585,"speaker":149,"num_words":32443,"start":26624,"end":26657},[33586],{"text":33587,"start":26624,"end":26657},"Wie würdest Du denn insgesamt den Zustand der Spielebranche in Deutschland beschreiben?",{"sentences":33589,"speaker":575,"num_words":32185,"start":26660,"end":26679},[33590],{"text":33591,"start":26660,"end":26679},"Also ja, ich Ich glaub, das sagt",{"sentences":33593,"speaker":149,"num_words":32185,"start":26679,"end":26695},[33594],{"text":33595,"start":26679,"end":26695},"schon alles aus, wenn man das so",{"sentences":33597,"speaker":575,"num_words":33277,"start":26695,"end":27073},[33598,33599,33601,33603,33605],{"text":7468,"start":26695,"end":26697},{"text":33600,"start":26701,"end":26736},"Also es gab natürlich irgendwie nach Corona gab's den Riesenboom ne oder während Corona.",{"text":33602,"start":26736,"end":26874},"Alle alles wurde riesig groß, alle Firmen wurden gekauft und alle waren so ja, jetzt werden wir alle reich mit Spielen und Embracer sowieso und dann stellte sich irgendwann raus, ach so ups nach Corona ist doch nicht so, die Leute machen doch auch wieder andere Sachen und sitzen nicht nur drin und spielen.",{"text":33604,"start":26876,"end":26968},"So und jetzt gerade wird halt links und rechts alles geschlossen oder verkauft und das sieht natürlich irgendwie nicht so super rosig aus und auch wenn ich jetzt mal so mich umhör bei anderen Entwickler*innen, die ich kenne.",{"text":33606,"start":26971,"end":27073},"Funding zu kriegen ist gerade schwer, die Bundesförderung gibt's gerade nicht, die es mal gab, also wo wir tatsächlich einfach Spiele gefördert bekommen haben, einfach leer ist jetzt weg und jetzt ohne Haushalt gerade auch irgendwie schwierig, ich glaub jetzt ist sie wieder gestartet.",{"sentences":33608,"speaker":575,"num_words":32148,"start":27076,"end":27131},[33609,33611],{"text":33610,"start":27076,"end":27093},"Bin mir grad gar nicht so ganz sicher.",{"text":33612,"start":27093,"end":27131},"Aber es ist alles irgendwie schwierig und ja, die die Fördersituation grad nicht ganz so rosig.",{"sentences":33614,"speaker":149,"num_words":33619,"start":27135,"end":27196},[33615,33617],{"text":33616,"start":27135,"end":27152},"Das beschreibt so die die wirtschaftliche Situation.",{"text":33618,"start":27155,"end":27196},"Wie glaubst Du, steht es in Deutschland den Schritt davor, die Ausbildung vorne für Spieleentwicklerinnen?",22,{"sentences":33621,"speaker":575,"num_words":33424,"start":27199,"end":27407},[33622,33624,33626,33628,33630],{"text":33623,"start":27199,"end":27219},"Ich würde sagen, das sieht gar nicht so schlecht aus.",{"text":33625,"start":27219,"end":27270},"Ich glaube, es gibt viele gute Unis, wo man Spielentwicklung lernen kann und viele Leute, die die da auch rauskommen.",{"text":33627,"start":27270,"end":27302},"Also wir kriegen viele Bewerbungen, obwohl wir halt gar keine Ausschreibungen machen.",{"text":33629,"start":27302,"end":27381},"Also sind alles Initiativbewerbungen von Leuten, die wo ich sag, ja geil, also sieht gut aus, was Du machst, ich will halt niemanden einstellen, aber wenn ich wollte, dann ja, so.",{"text":33631,"start":27381,"end":27407},"Also gibt viele viele gute Leute, die grade von den Unis kommen.",{"sentences":33633,"speaker":575,"num_words":32515,"start":27409,"end":27420},[33634],{"text":33635,"start":27409,"end":27420},"Aber die haben's halt schwer.",{"sentences":33637,"speaker":149,"num_words":32157,"start":27422,"end":27555},[33638,33639,33641,33642],{"text":2700,"start":27422,"end":27423},{"text":33640,"start":27426,"end":27468},"Also ja, die die haben's Wirtschaft, also die sind einfach grade so so ein Opfer ihrer Zeit, ja.",{"text":2389,"start":27468,"end":27470},{"text":33643,"start":27472,"end":27555},"Aber was, meinst Du, wenn Du sagst, es gibt viele gute Leute, was was macht es aus und welchem Umstand haben wir das zu verdanken, dass es offensichtliche gute Ausbildungen in dem Bereich gibt?",{"sentences":33645,"speaker":575,"num_words":32641,"start":27558,"end":27589},[33646,33648],{"text":33647,"start":27558,"end":27573},"Welchen Umstand haben wir das zu verdanken?",{"text":33649,"start":27573,"end":27589},"Boah, Du hast keine Ahnung, wie",{"sentences":33651,"speaker":149,"num_words":32873,"start":27591,"end":27714},[33652,33654,33656,33658],{"text":33653,"start":27591,"end":27601},"Okay, dann anders rumpackt.",{"text":33655,"start":27601,"end":27657},"Also wenn Du sagst, es es gibt viele coole Kandidaten, die halt von der Uni kommen, was zeichnet die denn für dich aus?",{"text":33657,"start":27657,"end":27680},"Weil der Abschluss per se ist es ja nicht.",{"text":33659,"start":27680,"end":27714},"Also was bringen die Leute mit, wo Du sagst, da die die die sind gut?",{"sentences":33661,"speaker":575,"num_words":33669,"start":27718,"end":27967},[33662,33664,33666,33668],{"text":33663,"start":27718,"end":27889},"Ja, also was ich immer beeindruckend finde ist, wenn Leute, die jetzt irgendwie grade aus dem Studium kommen, eben schon 'n paar Spieleprojekte und 'n schönes Portfolio haben, wo ich sehe, ah, die haben schon was gemacht, die haben auch mit Leuten zusammengearbeitet, da würde ich müsste ich mir quasi keine Gedanken machen, sondern ich könnte die einfach mit ins Team holen und die wüssten, wie es wie das läuft so ne.",{"text":33665,"start":27889,"end":27926},"Wir können im Team arbeiten und wissen generell, wie Unit funktioniert oder so.",{"text":33667,"start":27928,"end":27964},"Ich könnte quasi direkt mit denen starten, ohne für mich jetzt irgendwie großartig Aufwand zu haben.",{"text":22173,"start":27966,"end":27967},102,{"sentences":33671,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":27969,"end":27974},[33672],{"text":33673,"start":27969,"end":27974},"Hast Du",{"sentences":33675,"speaker":575,"num_words":575,"start":27974,"end":27981},[33676],{"text":33677,"start":27974,"end":27981},"denn Ja",{"sentences":33679,"speaker":128,"num_words":575,"start":27981,"end":27987},[33680],{"text":33681,"start":27981,"end":27987},"und die",{"sentences":33683,"speaker":575,"num_words":33686,"start":27987,"end":28177},[33684],{"text":33685,"start":27987,"end":28177},"Leute sind halt sind halt jetzt oft suchen ihren Job, ne, in der Games Branche und landen aber in anderen Branchen, was voll schade ist, weil die sind dann erst mal verloren für die Games Branche, obwohl sie dafür voll gut geeignet wären, aber die kommen wahrscheinlich auch nicht wieder, weil die arbeiten dann halt, keine Ahnung, beim Mercedes und verdienen Arsch voll Geld und damit kann halt die Games Branche nicht mithalten, denen irgendwann dieses Gehalt zu zahlen.",79,{"sentences":33688,"speaker":128,"num_words":32185,"start":28180,"end":28199},[33689,33690,33692],{"text":2389,"start":28180,"end":28181},{"text":33691,"start":28181,"end":28189},"Bist Du glücklich?",{"text":33693,"start":28192,"end":28199},"Ja, kleine Frage.",{"sentences":33695,"speaker":575,"num_words":32609,"start":28201,"end":28213},[33696],{"text":33697,"start":28201,"end":28213},"So generell oder mit meinem Job?",{"sentences":33699,"speaker":128,"num_words":32674,"start":28216,"end":28308},[33700,33702,33704],{"text":33701,"start":28216,"end":28240},"Nein, natürlich 'n bisschen auf das bezogen, was wir gesagt haben.",{"text":33703,"start":28240,"end":28273},"Bist Du glücklich, dass Du das den Schritt gegangen bist, dein dein eigenes Studio mitzugründen?",{"text":33705,"start":28277,"end":28308},"Guckst Du zuversichtlich in die Zukunft mit dem, was ihr da gerade macht?",{"sentences":33707,"speaker":575,"num_words":32318,"start":28310,"end":28559},[33708,33710,33712,33714,33716],{"text":33709,"start":28310,"end":28316},"Auf jeden Fall.",{"text":33711,"start":28316,"end":28340},"Also ich bin superfroh, dass wir das so gemacht haben.",{"text":33713,"start":28342,"end":28414},"Ich würd's nicht anders machen, jetzt im Sinne von, also ich würd sicherlich irgendwie andere Entscheidungen treffen, aber ich würde generell würde ich das wieder so machen und eine Firma gründen.",{"text":33715,"start":28417,"end":28495},"Das gefällt mir total gut und ich glaube, es wird auch gut in der Zukunft, also bei uns sieht's grad gut aus mit dem Spiel, das wir jetzt vorher veröffentlicht haben, das kleinere.",{"text":33717,"start":28498,"end":28559},"Das läuft ziemlich gut, da gibt's dann noch Updates und die erzählst und so weiter und Leute finden das auch immer noch gut und kaufen das.",{"sentences":33719,"speaker":575,"num_words":33722,"start":28562,"end":28654},[33720],{"text":33721,"start":28562,"end":28654},"Deswegen kannst Du auch noch bei uns 'n bisschen weitergehen und wir haben jetzt quasi die Chance dann danach noch ein, zwei Spiele zu machen, die hoffentlich dann auch laufen, ohne dass uns das Geld ausgeht und deswegen ist sehr positiv.",41,{"sentences":33724,"speaker":128,"num_words":32663,"start":28657,"end":28717},[33725,33727,33729,33731,33733],{"text":33726,"start":28657,"end":28669},"Ja, hört sich gut an.",{"text":33728,"start":28672,"end":28680},"Gut, wunderbar.",{"text":33730,"start":28685,"end":28693},"Moderierst Du dich an?",{"text":33732,"start":28697,"end":28703},"Die Fragerunden.",{"text":33734,"start":28703,"end":28717},"Das ist noch deine Fragen.",{"sentences":33736,"speaker":128,"num_words":32100,"start":28717,"end":28798},[33737,33739,33741],{"text":33738,"start":28717,"end":28725},"Ist meine Frage.",{"text":33740,"start":28725,"end":28740},"Ja, ich geborene die Fragen.",{"text":33742,"start":28742,"end":28798},"Wir haben eine kleine Frage, einen kleinen Fragenkatalog, den Du die meisten Fragen mit entweder oder Du kannst ja nicht mit entweder oder",{"sentences":33744,"speaker":149,"num_words":32185,"start":28798,"end":28816},[33745,33747],{"text":33746,"start":28798,"end":28804},"beantworten haben.",{"text":33748,"start":28804,"end":28816},"Bitte sag einfach oder jetzt.",{"sentences":33750,"speaker":128,"num_words":205,"start":28820,"end":28852},[33751],{"text":33752,"start":28820,"end":28852},"Aber es sind entweder oder Fragen und ein paar kurze Dinge noch zu dir.",{"sentences":33754,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":28855,"end":28856},[33755],{"text":3817,"start":28855,"end":28856},{"sentences":33757,"speaker":128,"num_words":32086,"start":28859,"end":28935},[33758,33760,33761,33763,33765],{"text":33759,"start":28859,"end":28872},"Wir machen ein bisschen die Stimmungsmusik.",{"text":28880,"start":28878,"end":28879},{"text":33762,"start":28882,"end":28902},"Vielleicht ein bisschen leiser, damit man uns noch hört.",{"text":33764,"start":28905,"end":28918},"Und dann starten wir direkt rein.",{"text":33766,"start":28918,"end":28935},"Und zwar, Hunde oder Katzen?",{"sentences":33768,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":28938,"end":28939},[33769],{"text":28941,"start":28938,"end":28939},{"sentences":33771,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":28944,"end":28952},[33772],{"text":33773,"start":28944,"end":28952},"Tee oder Kaffee?",{"sentences":33775,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":28955,"end":28956},[33776],{"text":28958,"start":28955,"end":28956},{"sentences":33778,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":28961,"end":28969},[33779],{"text":33780,"start":28961,"end":28969},"Auto oder Fahrrad?",{"sentences":33782,"speaker":575,"num_words":32256,"start":28972,"end":28986},[33783],{"text":33784,"start":28972,"end":28986},"Auto, mal E-Auto zumindest.",{"sentences":33786,"speaker":149,"num_words":32515,"start":28989,"end":28999},[33787],{"text":33788,"start":28989,"end":28999},"Da bist Du hier nicht",{"sentences":33790,"speaker":575,"num_words":32185,"start":29002,"end":29021},[33791],{"text":33792,"start":29002,"end":29021},"Fahrradfahren Fahrradfahren ist so schrecklich, hast Fahrradfahren.",{"sentences":33794,"speaker":128,"num_words":32515,"start":29025,"end":29035},[33795],{"text":33796,"start":29025,"end":29035},"Okay, hast Du auch Fahrradfahren?",{"sentences":33798,"speaker":149,"num_words":32450,"start":29038,"end":29063},[33799],{"text":33800,"start":29038,"end":29063},"Nein, ich sag sie ist in der richtigen Runde mit E-Auto.",{"sentences":33802,"speaker":128,"num_words":33807,"start":29063,"end":29110},[33803,33805],{"text":33804,"start":29063,"end":29082},"Ja, ich weiß, das weiß ich auch.",{"text":33806,"start":29082,"end":29110},"Wollte noch checken, ob das noch eine gleiche gemeinsame ist.",17,{"sentences":33809,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":29110,"end":29116},[33810],{"text":33811,"start":29110,"end":29116},"Alles gut.",{"sentences":33813,"speaker":128,"num_words":32609,"start":29116,"end":29134},[33814,33816],{"text":33815,"start":29116,"end":29123},"Okay, sehr gut.",{"text":33817,"start":29126,"end":29134},"Mac oder Windows?",{"sentences":33819,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":29137,"end":29138},[33820],{"text":29140,"start":29137,"end":29138},{"sentences":33822,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":29142,"end":29143},[33823],{"text":29140,"start":29142,"end":29143},{"sentences":33825,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":29146,"end":29152},[33826],{"text":33827,"start":29146,"end":29152},"Das geht nicht.",{"sentences":33829,"speaker":575,"num_words":32437,"start":29152,"end":29174},[33830],{"text":33831,"start":29152,"end":29174},"Ich benutz beides tatsächlich, aber zum Arbeiten Windows.",{"sentences":33833,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":29178,"end":29187},[33834],{"text":33835,"start":29178,"end":29187},"IOS oder Android?",{"sentences":33837,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":29190,"end":29191},[33838],{"text":29193,"start":29190,"end":29191},{"sentences":33840,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":29196,"end":29204},[33841],{"text":33842,"start":29196,"end":29204},"Büro oder remote?",{"sentences":33844,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":29207,"end":29208},[33845],{"text":29210,"start":29207,"end":29208},{"sentences":33847,"speaker":149,"num_words":33850,"start":29212,"end":29267},[33848],{"text":33849,"start":29212,"end":29267},"Haben wir, sorry ganz kurz in der Leitung, da haben wir gleich drüber gesprochen, dass Sie komplett remote arbeiten in der schönen Ja.",23,{"sentences":33852,"speaker":128,"num_words":32515,"start":29269,"end":29280},[33853],{"text":33854,"start":29269,"end":29280},"Ja, können wir ja jetzt.",{"sentences":33856,"speaker":575,"num_words":575,"start":29282,"end":29287},[33857],{"text":33858,"start":29282,"end":29287},"Können wir",{"sentences":33860,"speaker":149,"num_words":32185,"start":29287,"end":29307},[33861,33863],{"text":33862,"start":29287,"end":29292},"gleich gleich.",{"text":33864,"start":29292,"end":29307},"Mach mach deine Runde fertig.",{"sentences":33866,"speaker":128,"num_words":33807,"start":29307,"end":29359},[33867,33868,33870,33872],{"text":2700,"start":29307,"end":29309},{"text":33869,"start":29313,"end":29320},"Frontend oder Backend?",{"text":33871,"start":29323,"end":29343},"Gibt's eigentlich so in der Spiel immer Slogan?",{"text":33873,"start":29343,"end":29359},"Du, ich lass einfach so",{"sentences":33875,"speaker":149,"num_words":32185,"start":29359,"end":29381},[33876,33878],{"text":33877,"start":29359,"end":29374},"Game Logik oder oder UI?",{"text":33879,"start":29378,"end":29381},"Ja, stimmt.",{"sentences":33881,"speaker":575,"num_words":32478,"start":29383,"end":29431},[33882,33884],{"text":33883,"start":29383,"end":29416},"Ja, also das Ding ist halt tatsächlich, dass wir diese Begriffe so gar nicht verwenden.",{"text":33885,"start":29419,"end":29431},"Von daher boah keine Ahnung.",{"sentences":33887,"speaker":128,"num_words":32515,"start":29431,"end":29445},[33888],{"text":33889,"start":29431,"end":29445},"Okay, die darfst Du skippen.",{"sentences":33891,"speaker":575,"num_words":32515,"start":29448,"end":29461},[33892],{"text":33893,"start":29448,"end":29461},"Die darf ich skippen, danke.",{"sentences":33895,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":29465,"end":29474},[33896],{"text":33897,"start":29465,"end":29474},"Teamwork oder Individualist?",{"sentences":33899,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":29478,"end":29479},[33900],{"text":29481,"start":29478,"end":29479},{"sentences":33902,"speaker":128,"num_words":32515,"start":29483,"end":29494},[33903],{"text":33904,"start":29483,"end":29494},"Was war deine erste Programmiersprache?",{"sentences":33906,"speaker":575,"num_words":32437,"start":29498,"end":29518},[33907],{"text":33908,"start":29498,"end":29518},"Die erste, die ich gelernt hab, war c.",{"sentences":33910,"speaker":149,"num_words":32279,"start":29521,"end":29530},[33911],{"text":33912,"start":29521,"end":29530},"Boah, krasser Einstich.",{"sentences":33914,"speaker":128,"num_words":33850,"start":29534,"end":29585},[33915,33917,33919],{"text":33916,"start":29534,"end":29544},"Was war dein erster Computer?",{"text":33918,"start":29544,"end":29576},"Das haben wir, glaub ich, nicht gesagt, nur dass Du irgendwann einen bekommen hast.",{"text":33920,"start":29576,"end":29585},"Weißt Du das noch?",{"sentences":33922,"speaker":575,"num_words":32761,"start":29588,"end":29610},[33923,33925],{"text":33924,"start":29588,"end":29605},"Nee, Keine Ahnung, was das für einer war.",{"text":33926,"start":29605,"end":29610},"Windows irgendwas.",{"sentences":33928,"speaker":128,"num_words":32663,"start":29613,"end":29665},[33929,33930,33932,33934,33936],{"text":3817,"start":29613,"end":29614},{"text":33931,"start":29617,"end":29636},"Gibt es eine Lieblingsapp, die Du hast?",{"text":33933,"start":29638,"end":29649},"In Klammern, kein Spiel.",{"text":33935,"start":29649,"end":29662},"Das ist die nächste Frage.",{"text":18448,"start":29664,"end":29665},{"sentences":33938,"speaker":575,"num_words":32443,"start":29667,"end":29702},[33939,33940,33941],{"text":29671,"start":29667,"end":29668},{"text":29676,"start":29673,"end":29674},{"text":33942,"start":29678,"end":29702},"Ich versuch mein Handy so wenig wie möglich zu verwenden.",{"sentences":33944,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":29704,"end":29711},[33945],{"text":33946,"start":29704,"end":29711},"Und ein Lieblingsspiel?",{"sentences":33948,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":29714,"end":29718},[33949],{"text":33950,"start":29714,"end":29718},"Oh, das",{"sentences":33952,"speaker":128,"num_words":32185,"start":29718,"end":29736},[33953,33955],{"text":33954,"start":29718,"end":29726},"ist jetzt spannend.",{"text":33956,"start":29726,"end":29736},"Darf man das überhaupt?",{"sentences":33958,"speaker":575,"num_words":575,"start":29740,"end":29744},[33959],{"text":33960,"start":29740,"end":29744},"Mein Lieblingsspiel.",{"sentences":33962,"speaker":149,"num_words":32437,"start":29744,"end":29764},[33963],{"text":33964,"start":29744,"end":29764},"Darf man jetzt sein nicht eigenes Spiel pitchen?",{"sentences":33966,"speaker":575,"num_words":575,"start":29764,"end":29770},[33967],{"text":33968,"start":29764,"end":29770},"Ist das",{"sentences":33970,"speaker":149,"num_words":32437,"start":29770,"end":29788},[33971],{"text":33972,"start":29770,"end":29788},"dann so wie seine eigenen Kinder zu verraten?",{"sentences":33974,"speaker":575,"num_words":32590,"start":29788,"end":29915},[33975,33977,33979,33981,33983],{"text":33976,"start":29788,"end":29811},"Mein eigenes Spiel ist auf jeden Fall nicht mein Lieblingsspiel.",{"text":33978,"start":29814,"end":29838},"Ich ich kann die alle nicht mehr sehen, die ich entwickelt habe.",{"text":33980,"start":29838,"end":29871},"Das ist ja furchtbar Ich hab die alle ja tausende Stunden gespielt.",{"text":33982,"start":29874,"end":29891},"Also das ist selbstverständlich nicht mehr mein Lieblingsspiel.",{"text":33984,"start":29893,"end":29915},"Nee, mein Lieblingsspiel ist Final Fantasy neunte",{"sentences":33986,"speaker":128,"num_words":32437,"start":29917,"end":29937},[33987,33989,33990],{"text":33988,"start":29917,"end":29922},"Oh, cool.",{"text":32161,"start":29924,"end":29928},{"text":33991,"start":29930,"end":29937},"Okay, dann lass uns",{"sentences":33993,"speaker":149,"num_words":32515,"start":29939,"end":29950},[33994],{"text":33995,"start":29939,"end":29950},"Noch kurz über remote sprechen.",{"sentences":33997,"speaker":128,"num_words":32437,"start":29950,"end":29967},[33998],{"text":33999,"start":29950,"end":29967},"Genau, lass uns noch kurz über remote sprechen.",{"sentences":34001,"speaker":149,"num_words":32515,"start":29969,"end":29980},[34002,34003],{"text":2700,"start":29969,"end":29970},{"text":34004,"start":29970,"end":29980},"Ich hab eben nur,",{"sentences":34006,"speaker":128,"num_words":32908,"start":29980,"end":30081},[34007,34009],{"text":34008,"start":29980,"end":30059},"weil Du hast irgendwie so mitbekommen, ihr seid umgezogen, keine Ahnung was und Du wohnst in nirgendwo, das hab ich zumindest mitbekommen, weil zweimal das Internet wegen Satelliteninternet ausgefallen ist.",{"text":34010,"start":30061,"end":30081},"Das hört sich schon alles nach seremote an.",{"sentences":34012,"speaker":149,"num_words":33153,"start":30083,"end":30193},[34013],{"text":34014,"start":30083,"end":30193},"Ja, aber ja nicht nur, es ist ja nicht nur so, dass, also wie ich das verstanden hab, Kathrin, ne, dass dass Du jetzt ganz weit weg bist und alle deine anderen Leute sitzen noch zusammen in einem Office, sondern ihr seid ja alle so remote, ne?",{"sentences":34016,"speaker":575,"num_words":32157,"start":30195,"end":30324},[34017],{"text":34018,"start":30195,"end":30324},"Genau, also wir haben alle seit der Gründung von zu Hause gearbeitet, also auch davor schon, als wir alle noch angestellt waren, haben wir eigentlich auch größtenteils von zu Hause gearbeitet und das ist dann halt so geblieben und dann kann man sich auch die Bürokosten sparen und so und das war eigentlich gut.",{"sentences":34020,"speaker":149,"num_words":32943,"start":30326,"end":30509},[34021,34022,34024],{"text":2700,"start":30326,"end":30327},{"text":34023,"start":30330,"end":30448},"Was was entgegnest Du Leuten, die behaupten, na ja, der größte Vorteil von diesem zusammen mit einem physischen Space zu arbeiten, ist es ja, dass es son Booster für ist es ja, dass es son Booster für Kreativität ist, wenn man im selben Raum ist und so.",{"text":34025,"start":30448,"end":30509},"Und gerade in eurer Branche ja Kreativität doch superwichtig ist und ihr es ja offensichtlich auch schafft, ohne die gleichen Räumlichkeiten kreativ zu sein",{"sentences":34027,"speaker":575,"num_words":32423,"start":30511,"end":30730},[34028,34030,34032,34034],{"text":34029,"start":30511,"end":30537},"Also ich meine, wenn das für Leute funktioniert, ist das doch super.",{"text":34031,"start":30541,"end":30562},"Keine Ahnung, vielleicht gibt's Leute, bei denen das so ist.",{"text":34033,"start":30564,"end":30668},"Ja, ich seh da jetzt, also klar ist auch schön, die zu sehen alle und zusammen was zu machen und ich find das auch voll wichtig, dass wir das ab und zu mal machen und uns mal sehen, aber ich muss es nicht jede Woche haben.",{"text":34035,"start":30668,"end":30730},"Ich muss es auch nicht jeden Monat haben und ich, nee, also das schreckt meine Kreativität jetzt gar nicht ein, dass ich die Leute nicht persönlich sehe.",{"sentences":34037,"speaker":149,"num_words":32663,"start":30734,"end":30782},[34038],{"text":34039,"start":30734,"end":30782},"Was sind dann so die Tools, die ihr so im im klassischen Arbeitsalltag benutzt, so zusammen zu kollaborieren?",{"sentences":34041,"speaker":575,"num_words":34052,"start":30785,"end":31025},[34042,34044,34046,34048,34050],{"text":34043,"start":30785,"end":30917},"Also wir benutzen, wir wir schreiben viel alle unsere Sachen in Notion auf, also haben da irgendwie eine Dokumentation, 'n Gamedesign Dokument, wo alles reinkommt, wo wir unsere Ideen aufschreiben und dann schickt man das eben durch, sagt hier guck mal, das hab ich mir überlegt, wie findet ihr das?",{"text":34045,"start":30917,"end":30941},"Dann schreiben alle ihre Kommentare rein oder schreiben was dazu.",{"text":34047,"start":30943,"end":30969},"Genau, wir benutzen Slack und unterhalten uns darüber oder mieten uns.",{"text":34049,"start":30969,"end":31006},"Also wir haben immer jeden Morgen unser Daily und besprechen da unsere Sachen über Discord.",{"text":34051,"start":31009,"end":31025},"Ja, das sind, glaub ich, so die Sachen.",94,{"sentences":34054,"speaker":575,"num_words":32761,"start":31025,"end":31050},[34055],{"text":34056,"start":31025,"end":31050},"Ab und zu benutzen wir noch mal Miro, aber selten.",{"sentences":34058,"speaker":149,"num_words":32515,"start":31053,"end":31068},[34059,34060,34061,34062,34063],{"text":2389,"start":31053,"end":31054},{"text":2700,"start":31054,"end":31057},{"text":31061,"start":31059,"end":31060},{"text":22173,"start":31063,"end":31064},{"text":31061,"start":31067,"end":31068},{"sentences":34065,"speaker":149,"num_words":32692,"start":31070,"end":31105},[34066,34067,34069],{"text":31072,"start":31070,"end":31071},{"text":34068,"start":31074,"end":31087},"Dann sind wir, glaub ich, durch.",{"text":34070,"start":31087,"end":31105},"Ich hab keine Fragen mehr auf meiner Liste.",{"sentences":34072,"speaker":128,"num_words":32692,"start":31108,"end":31146},[34073,34075],{"text":34074,"start":31108,"end":31114},"Ich auch nicht.",{"text":34076,"start":31117,"end":31146},"Außer die obligatorische wärst Du gern noch was anderes gefragt worden Frage.",{"sentences":34078,"speaker":575,"num_words":32641,"start":31149,"end":31184},[34079,34081,34083],{"text":34080,"start":31149,"end":31159},"Nee, ich fand's schön.",{"text":34082,"start":31159,"end":31171},"War 'n schönes Gespräch.",{"text":34084,"start":31171,"end":31184},"Schön, mit euch zu quatschen.",{"sentences":34086,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":31187,"end":31188},[34087],{"text":22173,"start":31187,"end":31188},{"sentences":34089,"speaker":575,"num_words":128,"start":31191,"end":31192},[34090],{"text":31194,"start":31191,"end":31192},{"sentences":34092,"speaker":149,"num_words":33807,"start":31192,"end":31240},[34093,34094,34096,34097],{"text":3917,"start":31192,"end":31196},{"text":34095,"start":31196,"end":31218},"Mir ist grad doch noch eine letzte Frage eingefallen.",{"text":31223,"start":31221,"end":31222},{"text":34098,"start":31222,"end":31240},"Dennis Dennis, Aber ich ich schütte",{"sentences":34100,"speaker":128,"num_words":32515,"start":31240,"end":31253},[34101],{"text":34102,"start":31240,"end":31253},"den Kopf, aber mach mal.",{"sentences":34104,"speaker":149,"num_words":33850,"start":31255,"end":31315},[34105,34107,34109],{"text":34106,"start":31255,"end":31262},"Nein, Dennis Nick.",{"text":34108,"start":31262,"end":31275},"Ja, okay, das war drauf.",{"text":34110,"start":31277,"end":31315},"Wenn Du morgen nicht mehr in der Gamesbranche arbeiten dürftest, was würdest Du alternativ machen?",{"sentences":34112,"speaker":575,"num_words":32494,"start":31317,"end":31369},[34113,34115],{"text":34114,"start":31317,"end":31348},"Also ich würde, glaube ich, was ich würd glaub eher was draußen machen.",{"text":34116,"start":31350,"end":31369},"Ich ich würd ich würd vielleicht Cool, wie",{"sentences":34118,"speaker":149,"num_words":575,"start":31369,"end":31375},[34119],{"text":34120,"start":31369,"end":31375},"Du grade",{"sentences":34122,"speaker":575,"num_words":34125,"start":31377,"end":31595},[34123],{"text":34124,"start":31377,"end":31595},"Aber ich würd glaub, ja ich glaub, ich würd eher vielleicht nichts mit Computern machen oder keine Ahnung, vielleicht würde ich, na ja, also das ist schwer zu sagen, was will ich machen, was kann ich, also ich glaube, was ich machen könnte, wäre vielleicht irgendwie was mit Social Media oder so, weil ich's in meinem Job jetzt auch viel mach, da könnte ich vielleicht irgendwas machen, aber ob ich das glücklich machen würde, würde ich mal bezweifeln, wenn ich nur noch das machen würde, deswegen würde ich glaub eher, keine Ahnung, Tier Tierpflege oder so.",96,{"sentences":34127,"speaker":149,"num_words":32663,"start":31597,"end":31646},[34128],{"text":34129,"start":31597,"end":31646},"Also ich kenn tatsächlich jemanden, der hat dieses ganze Computerzeug an Nagel gehängt und sich eine Schafherde zugelegt.",{"sentences":34131,"speaker":575,"num_words":32761,"start":31649,"end":31674},[34132,34133],{"text":2835,"start":31649,"end":31650},{"text":34134,"start":31653,"end":31674},"Ja, könnt ich auch machen, könnt ich auch machen.",{"sentences":34136,"speaker":149,"num_words":34141,"start":31676,"end":31761},[34137,34139],{"text":34138,"start":31676,"end":31684},"Sehr gut, cool.",{"text":34140,"start":31686,"end":31761},"Dann hoffen wir aber trotzdem noch, dass Du der Gamesbranche lange erhalten bleibst und also mal mindestens so lange, bis dieses Spiel fertig ist, weil da freu ich mich jetzt schon drauf.",35,{"sentences":34143,"speaker":575,"num_words":32450,"start":31763,"end":31787},[34144,34146],{"text":34145,"start":31763,"end":31775},"Das das schaffen wir grad noch.",{"text":34147,"start":31775,"end":31787},"Es ist nicht mehr Wein.",{"sentences":34149,"speaker":128,"num_words":32609,"start":31790,"end":31805},[34150,34152],{"text":34151,"start":31790,"end":31797},"Wollt grad sagen.",{"text":34153,"start":31797,"end":31805},"Das ist das.",{"sentences":34155,"speaker":149,"num_words":33619,"start":31805,"end":31866},[34156,34158,34160,34161],{"text":34157,"start":31805,"end":31821},"Berühmte letzte Woche im Podcast.",{"text":34159,"start":31821,"end":31836},"Das ist so gut wie fertig.",{"text":31072,"start":31838,"end":31839},{"text":34162,"start":31843,"end":31866},"Dann Katrin, danke für die Zeit, danke für das Gespräch.",{"sentences":34164,"speaker":575,"num_words":575,"start":31866,"end":31872},[34165],{"text":34166,"start":31866,"end":31872},"Danke euch.",{"sentences":34168,"speaker":149,"num_words":32531,"start":31875,"end":32040},[34169,34171,34173,34175],{"text":34170,"start":31875,"end":31968},"Danke Dennis und dann bleibt uns nichts mehr zu sagen, außer wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik und Feedback habt, immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder wie Katrin grade gesagt hat, immer gerne auf Social Media.",{"text":34172,"start":31968,"end":32001},"Da sind wir auch viel unterwegs und ihr wisst, wo ihr uns finden könnt.",{"text":34174,"start":32001,"end":32023},"Und ansonsten hören wir uns dann hier bald wieder.",{"text":34176,"start":32023,"end":32040},"Tschau, tschau und bis zum nächsten Mal.",{"sentences":34178,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":32040,"end":32047},[34179],{"text":34180,"start":32040,"end":32047},"Vielen Dank Katrin.",{"sentences":34182,"speaker":575,"num_words":575,"start":32050,"end":32054},[34183],{"text":34166,"start":32050,"end":32054},{"sentences":34185,"speaker":128,"num_words":32279,"start":32056,"end":32062},[34186],{"text":34187,"start":32056,"end":32062},"Tschau, macht's 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{"start":146,"end":182,"confidence":34190,"channel":149,"transcript":34191,"words":34192,"speaker":149,"id":34202},0.9350767,"Hallo und herzlich willkommen bei einer neuen programmierbar 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